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油砂采油的成本现在是多少

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发表于 2008-11-8 06:41 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
老杨团队,追求完美;客户至上,服务到位!
油砂采油的成本现在是多少,丫省靠这个发展经济,有没有人懂这个,有资料吗,谁给个参考
大型搬家
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发表于 2008-11-8 09:03 | 显示全部楼层
不知道,路过看看
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发表于 2008-11-8 10:08 | 显示全部楼层
成本和个人关系很大吗?
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 楼主| 发表于 2008-11-8 10:43 | 显示全部楼层
老杨团队 追求完美
成本和大家的生活相关,成本如果低公司利润就好 发展潜力大,我们做工的就有工资涨 所以关注
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发表于 2008-11-8 10:47 | 显示全部楼层
有人说现在的成本是50,不知真假
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发表于 2008-11-8 11:49 | 显示全部楼层
有人说不超过30,我保留怀疑态度
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 楼主| 发表于 2008-11-8 12:00 | 显示全部楼层
老杨团队,追求完美;客户至上,服务到位!
还有不超过20的言论那,所以要知情者提个准确意见
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发表于 2008-11-8 12:22 | 显示全部楼层
关键是我们一点都不能控制油价的成本和石油的价格,还有很多人的行业和石油关联性不是很大。所以还是脚踩西瓜皮,滑到哪里算哪里,可能是太消极了。
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 楼主| 发表于 2008-11-8 13:01 | 显示全部楼层
老杨团队,追求完美;客户至上,服务到位!
以下这段摘自凤凰网关于李嘉诚的报道有关信息: 今年成为和黄盈利宝器的赫斯基能源就是一例,李嘉诚在22年前把这个加拿大油砂能源公司收至旗下,当时由于油砂炼油技术原因,该公司一直亏损,而且国际油价长期不振,因此外界并不看好李嘉诚的投资。但是时过境迁,随着技术提升,目前采油砂的成本一桶已经只需要   10     美元,而国际油价在去年飙升至超过150美元/桶,虽然近期油价回落,但即便按最不乐观的50美元/桶估计,李嘉诚的赫斯基能源也是稳赚不赔。
6 A; _: D' _0 d7 Y- Q5 m6 i事实上,仅今年上半年,赫斯基能源已经为和黄贡献了85.4亿港元的盈利,占和黄固有业务盈利的比重已经上升至28%。“李超人”很自豪地透露:“现在已经有数名买家愿意以高于目前石油市场现价,向赫斯基能源购买三年后的生产量……”
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发表于 2008-11-8 13:14 | 显示全部楼层
老杨团队,追求完美;客户至上,服务到位!
如果油井已经打好,成本是很低。
1 a5 \1 k6 H& U; G& L1 I但是如果从开始勘探,到试井,到真正打井,那成本要高好几倍。勘探时候打一口井就可能几十万,然后可能是下面什么也没有。
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发表于 2008-11-8 15:20 | 显示全部楼层

A copy from newspaper for your reference

Since everybody wants to know the cost for oil from oilsands, I have a copy from newspaper for your reference: O2 J. G, A  R( c7 _- D6 \

4 t  ?! \/ w$ R- |7 W- q6 X% a/ r1 D( Y( Z) _# O0 O; X# d/ v
The sky isn't falling, but fuel prices areDeborah Yedlin, Calgary Herald
1 n  v0 C" N$ cPublished: Friday, October 17, 2008
* l' E4 g3 A" k& W& P$ M5 w, fWith oil prices tumbling below $70 US per barrel on Thursday -- to their lowest levels since August 2007 -- one might think the sky is falling. It's equally tempting to start pointing fingers at all the elected officials who were crying for inquiries last July regarding the high price of oil; if they were so convinced the price had been driven upwards to the record close of $145.29 price by speculators, it's surprising they are not suggesting the short-sellers have driven it down.
+ s1 Y" V3 M6 C8 s/ H2 O3 G$ O. iBut no. The high price is about politics. The low price of crude means consumers are no longer phoning constituency offices to complain about be gouged at the gas pump. It's safe to assume, therefore, taxpayers dollars will not be wasted looking into why oil prices have fallen so far, so fast.3 ~, o4 F; k( I9 z/ ^9 Z$ A6 Y9 h
All kidding aside, however, it would be foolhardy to suggest that there hasn't been a collective gasp in Canada's oilpatch as crude prices have plummeted; investors had gotten used to seeing a triple-digit price for crude, even though the market was not valuing energy stocks at that level, nor were companies planning capital expenditures with oil beyond the century mark.2 h7 B+ }; D  @$ B
While no one really believed an oil price beyond $100 was sustainable, companies and investors had gotten used to it. It's now back to reality -- where prices will be a more accurate reflection of supply and demand, at least for now.
9 f4 m* c' ^2 j8 t- [  XHere are a few things to chew on.
$ z, }0 n1 L& S% t1 W/ n# @+ d  zFirst, the oilsands projects that are up and running are not at risk. As FirstEnergy's William Lacey was quick to point out Thursday, oilsands operations did not shut down when oil hit $10 a barrel in 1998 and early 1999., o* b: j7 T$ r; ^
"They will keep running, no matter what . . . unless there is a massive shift somewhere . . . these are not easy projects to shut down or start up. But it's the new projects like Fort Hills that we estimate need a $115 oil price to achieve a 10 per cent after-tax return, that are in the territory of now being uneconomic," he said.9 u# g: H# z  X
As to what the break-even oil price is for these operations, Lacey says the way to look at it is the cash cost per barrel to operate. The cash cost calculation typically includes operating costs, including expenses such as general and administrative costs, royalties and interest expense., V, ]5 [6 ^6 _5 {) t2 _
He says Suncor's all-in cash cost is $46 a barrel, with $33 being associated with operating costs. Canadian Oil Sands Trust pays out $43 per barrel, of which $27 is related to operating expenses.
+ k* G+ |, a+ D! z$ HMeanwhile, Imperial Oil's Cold Lake operations are the cheapest to run -- $30 per barrel, with $17 being the operating component.* B# m, G, I/ y( B
In the context of Suncor and its $20-billion Voyageur expansion that was announced in January, Lacey says the company has the luxury of slowing down the development of the four-phase, in-situ development.
; |4 o3 k- _7 n"At $60 a barrel, Suncor doesn't have enough credit to get through 2009 in terms of funding Voyageur from debt and cash flow, but at $80 a barrel it can easily meet the costs through 2009," he says./ p" T& Z; |4 W% ]0 \6 D& N
The good news, then, is that in each of these cases, a $60 oil price doesn't shut anything down. Besides, the lower commodity price environment that is driving down the value of the Canadian dollar means cash flows go up for any company producing a commodity priced in U.S. dollars. The price for WTI might have closed at $69.85 US per barrel on Thursday, but Edmonton Light ended the day at $85.89 Canadian.
8 ?: R  c+ m- H7 _$ o4 ^" VSo that's one argument against the "sky is falling" sentiment. And that's the short-term view.' L8 y9 u- s  s: f  S* D7 }+ h" P
The long-term view gets more interesting.
; P  {, N- c/ ]! f8 nThat's because a low oil price -- and therefore low gasoline price -- is going to do nothing in the context of encouraging conservation or prompting reinvestment.
$ U$ ]' K  M/ |. ?* MIf the oil price -- and therefore prices at the gasoline pump -- remain low for the next 12 months, there is no reason to believe that the dramatic drop in gasoline consumption that has been recorded in the U.S. will continue; low gas prices means the mothballed Hummer will soon be back on the freeway. And this does nothing to solve the long-term issue of the U.S. addiction to oil.
  Z3 R; @8 z- b7 AThe second point is that low prices, tight credit markets and no possibility of raising money through the sale of shares means companies will not be stretching themselves on the reinvestment front. When the global economy resumes its growth, the supply issues will not have been solved; they will have been made worse. Don't forget that the Middle East accounted for a big share of the growth in oil consumption in 2007, while China was responsible for about a third. Then there's the subsidy factor -- with Venezuela selling gasoline at 16 cents a litre; these practices or consumption patterns are not about to change.
8 L# ]! \7 N  A* n  [The only thing that might come out of all this is a round of acquisitions by companies -- especially the super majors -- that have big cash positions on their balance sheets and have struggled to add reserves. ExxonMobil has been one company whose name keeps surfacing; it could easily scoop up the 30 per cent of Imperial Oil it doesn't already own for about $8 billion and still have money left over. There were also reports Thursday that BP -- which has suffered in Russia with its BP-TNK joint venture -- might just be looking at natural gas producer Chesapeake Energy because it too has been challenged in terms of reserve additions. Royal Dutch Shell is another company whose name keeps coming up, for similar reasons.- K! Q) }9 b# p( i- J/ R% `
As they like to say in these parts, all these companies with sizeable cash positions are sporting big hunting licences.  P0 y% \% w) D8 F/ a
In the short-term, however, hard as it may be, it's important to remember that the oilpatch has been through much worse over the years. It is better capitalized than it has ever been and even at $60 oil will be generating more than enough cash flow to fund operations -- even reinvestment -- because costs are coming down.
2 e; b( w& |' KThe reality is that the high prices over the past year had stymied the asset sale world because of the huge gaps in terms of expectations between buyers and sellers; lower prices and the tight credit markets means the old-fashioned values of succeeding on the basis of competitive advantages, looking for growth opportunities at reasonable prices and using plain vanilla financial instruments to meet financing needs are back.
0 `/ `0 A6 C9 E4 _7 s9 \The world has changed. But in the context of long-term oil prices, the question of supply has not been solved and low oil prices only serve to push up demand. All this does is set the world up for higher prices in the years to come.' r% ]$ Z2 S. l2 L
dyedlin@theherald.canwest.com
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发表于 2008-11-8 16:02 | 显示全部楼层
http://www.bigsound.org/leonard/2007/06/02/001.html
, i  B4 P+ s1 g+ v  }5 g/ S" G過去多數石油公司都認為開採油砂成本過高,所以興趣缺缺,多數情況下,開挖油砂之前,得先夷平地表植被、抽乾沼澤地、移除表土,才能挖掘地底的油砂,之後再將油砂與水混合、燃燒天然氣加熱,進而將油與砂分離,某些時候則是將蒸汽注入地底,再將泥漿抽出。無論採用何種方法,都會產生瀝青,再經過精煉才會變成汽油,這個過程不僅得耗費大量能源,而且每桶油成本高達18至23美元,花旗銀行分析師認為,國際油價必須維持在每桶40美元以上,企業才會願意開採油砂
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1 I2 o& E% _2 e# y目前油價維持在每桶70美元左右,各大企業也苦於尋找新油源,使油砂的吸引力突然大增,而且油砂產地不會有探勘失敗之虞,只要開始運作後,每座油砂場至少可供應30年產油量不墜,較一般油田穩定許多,再加上油砂位於加拿大,較不易出現動盪局勢影響產能。
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0 c. ]5 L: E4 M3 ?9 _: p, \请注意:发表时间;矿产规模啥地$ U/ a! L9 g# p+ m% s- ^

0 ^; `) y  w  L: l# c[ 本帖最后由 ares4p 于 2008-11-8 16:05 编辑 ]
理袁律师事务所
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发表于 2008-11-8 16:44 | 显示全部楼层
同言同羽 置业良晨
这个油砂成本可能需要准确定义。我不清楚,但是,目前油价到了60刀一桶,就导致alberta目前所有的新项目停建、取消、缓建,可以看出,目前油砂成本肯定不低。
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发表于 2008-11-8 17:22 | 显示全部楼层
老杨团队,追求完美;客户至上,服务到位!
楼上的没醉,哈哈
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发表于 2008-11-8 21:07 | 显示全部楼层
不好说啊!这个东西是人算出来的,可以不断更改。# i7 ]3 r' t/ k9 |& s8 H: l8 U
公司自己声称:生产成本Sycrude $32  Suncor $28 但是,鬼知道这里都包含什么成分,当年,油价在十几美元的时候,油沙公司照样生产。
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发表于 2008-11-8 21:58 | 显示全部楼层
石油公司也是在借机整合市场,不光是控制开采成本,停了项目之后也可以相应控制人工成本,使前一段过热的劳动力市场缓和一下。所以不是坏事。当然石油一旦跌破30,狼就真来了
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发表于 2008-11-8 22:54 | 显示全部楼层
同言同羽 置业良晨
目前油价到了60刀一桶,就导致alberta目前所有的新项目停建、取消、缓建,可以看出,目前油砂成本肯定不低。
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发表于 2008-11-8 23:25 | 显示全部楼层
28 per barrel
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发表于 2008-11-9 11:00 | 显示全部楼层

Here is an example (Real Data from a company's financial report)

Three Months Ended         Nine Months Ended                                
  P3 M# W  c! F% I& t0 x                    September 30               September 30    ($ per bbl)(1)        
* w4 H' Y; v' ~: y( b# N- k                2008     2007  Variance     2008     2007  Variance    / N; S4 }  z5 \9 a4 P( n
-------------------------------------------------------------------------    6 z2 Z4 O. {( {  F. n/ O) `5 }9 q
Revenues after crude     oil purchases and     transportation     expense
: ^3 n# V4 K( q" B             128.66    81.48    47.18   120.93    75.94    44.99   
3 y1 x% ~# @4 v- p3 O/ TOperating costs ' e) G# L6 V% _* |1 M
             (32.15)  (20.84)  (11.31)  (36.37)  (24.48)  (11.89)   
  ?7 m/ P( |- d0 g$ \Crown royalties2 ]  j% E6 n( w1 A! k- ~9 R: j! a
            (21.50)  (14.32)   (7.18)  (18.83)  (11.49)   (7.34)    + Y% D) \; v4 T7 `/ Q3 q  M" A+ `$ p
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
, J  m* C% _- u- \5 r2 R              75.01    46.32    28.69    65.73    39.97    25.76   
7 x) e; p- l) u-------------------------------------------------------------------------    1 S& x' `4 y, ^8 V9 x" j4 R0 E2 T& C
Non-production costs  1 g. T6 R5 u& Z4 v- A! }, `6 U/ Y
             (1.95)   (1.40)   (0.55)   (1.87)   (1.62)   (0.25)   
% r: I& J! \7 W- o0 e! Y( |; ^! U! UAdministration     and insurance        
" U; B2 |  @! c8 g! n             (0.44)   (0.54)    0.10    (0.70)   (0.67)   (0.03)   
: k2 Q) S$ e/ o: t7 B: r5 zInterest, net         
5 g! k' M1 v( a9 F            (1.52)   (1.83)    0.31    (1.73)   (2.24)    0.51    4 y" `- G* ^' K& l; R, R3 Y/ m
Depletion,     depreciation and     accretion           
* i2 O- V+ E1 m. S) Z, ]           (11.35)   (8.76)   (2.59)  (11.36)   (8.60)   (2.76)    # J# h/ ~2 r) d8 {
Foreign exchange     gain (loss)         
" C6 w. P3 B) T           (2.99)    3.59    (6.58)   (1.85)    3.69    (5.54)   
& ]9 r* H0 Q. o9 ?Future income tax     (expense) recovery     and other            
3 P# W5 \# ~  ?/ R8 a           (0.52)   (5.94)    5.42     0.64   (23.01)   23.65   
1 P6 p. w5 q* Y1 E9 L- U5 _- K------------------------------------------------------------------------- 0 X3 L$ H* s- N7 q  K
          (18.77)  (14.88)   (3.89)  (16.87)  (32.45)   15.58   
7 a, y# e8 \" X9 l1 S/ ^* |$ r) F/ [6 A. C-------------------------------------------------------------------------   
5 r4 r6 L8 A( c5 o2 oNet income per     barrel               
8 W1 U; H3 ^  w! D" F* P6 G& ]5 c            56.24    31.44    24.80    48.86     7.52    41.34   
6 `, Y2 F( J) I7 y; h/ A-------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 i' c$ q4 e3 n" o1 v3 |( d
# u1 Z) Y4 `/ `- r" r[ 本帖最后由 信马由缰 于 2008-11-9 11:11 编辑 ]
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发表于 2008-11-9 12:11 | 显示全部楼层
老杨团队,追求完美;客户至上,服务到位!
油砂开采目前有2种方式,一种是mining,就是传说中的挖油
0 x2 f0 Z' n2 I) f一种采用SAGD (steam assisted gravity drainage),蒸汽辅助重力驱油。
: o5 z6 J6 C* Z8 `1 f. s1 g$ X6 a: y: |9 k7 u' e
看这个简单的示意图:
! f: F* ~" H! t: M) z# K/ \# ^* |- D3 i

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! l5 D! }* R9 g上面的水平井注蒸汽,形成蒸汽腔,高温将上方高度粘稠的油融化,易于流动,再由重力,流到下方的水平井采出。这是SAGD的基本原理。) I! f/ o- g/ G( A, z1 p& }! K

1 |, \6 d6 h/ r# c4 D0 B打上下2口水平井,要求高差不超过5米,难度很大,要保持上下2口井均匀水平,目前只有哈利伯顿有比较完整先进的技术。 " Z( V9 `) R+ L" ]5 G
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一般来说,打1000米长的水平井的价格是打直井的2倍,打这样均匀的2口水平井对则收费更高。
( G' t, r6 E1 ]2 R: q2 _
- }  ^) G5 {! A一般一口直井的预算是50万加元,水平井按100万,那水平井对则是200万。。。。。
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打完这2口井后,上面那口井要预先注蒸汽至少半年,才能开始采油。而蒸汽是要烧的天然气,天然气也是要花钱买的呀~~~~8 Z8 W# }5 o$ o1 v

% B9 L+ ^+ r7 x& P7 a/ N也就是说在油砂开始出油前的成本,远远高于普通直井。。。。。4 C5 Z% X$ W; B7 l; [

* j0 Z& ?; h+ _- K目前是油砂的油在40到50之间。。。。
理袁律师事务所
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发表于 2008-11-9 12:29 | 显示全部楼层
用SAGD采油跟传统的挖油砂,究竟哪个占主流?如果用传统的挖油砂办法,成本又是多少?传统的挖油砂办法,环境破坏很大,保护环境的费用又是多少?
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发表于 2008-11-9 12:32 | 显示全部楼层
同言同羽 置业良晨
原帖由 末底改 于 2008-11-9 12:29 发表 ' X9 ?& v5 u4 {. j
用SAGD采油跟传统的挖油砂,究竟哪个占主流?如果用传统的挖油砂办法,成本又是多少?传统的挖油砂办法,环境破坏很大,保护环境的费用又是多少?

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% @* M$ a  }% s1 Z7 r$ L: \这个不知道啊,我不搞重油和油砂,我是搞轻油的,用Co2驱油
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发表于 2008-11-9 12:39 | 显示全部楼层
同言同羽 置业良晨
目前有些油公司制定了一些内部标准,评估是否上项目,都是按一桶油80美元,天然气按7加元算。 项目上不上,是要做经济评价的,目前是按照这个价格评估,赚钱就上,不赚就不上。  D, s* R. N, g, m* F* i2 M7 \
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[ 本帖最后由 李大毛 于 2008-11-9 12:42 编辑 ]
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 楼主| 发表于 2008-11-9 13:19 | 显示全部楼层
还是专业人士解释的清楚啊
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发表于 2008-11-9 14:22 | 显示全部楼层
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原帖由 末底改 于 2008-11-9 12:29 发表
* F0 `: D; r; M/ ^; x用SAGD采油跟传统的挖油砂,究竟哪个占主流?如果用传统的挖油砂办法,成本又是多少?传统的挖油砂办法,环境破坏很大,保护环境的费用又是多少?
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SAGD采油跟传统的挖油砂各有利弊,SAGD可以开采深层的油沙,而且初期投资较传统的油沙少,但成本较MINGING法稍高,一般一套装置从开始注蒸气到达到设计生产能力要2-4年的时间,达到设计生产能力后的operation cost 8.5-10.5 dollars/bbl, payout应该在20和30之间,天燃气成本大,但并没有想象中的大主要原因是所有的SAGD所有的装置都是由发电装置改装的,SAGD只使用steam gen.产生的蒸汽,co-gen产生的电力或steam turbine产生的电力会提供给当地的电力公司,作为交换石油公司会得到免费或低费用的天然气,它对环境的损害主要是对水的大量使用和污染,目前世界上还没有特别有效的对高含沥青的污水的处理装置和办法。MINGING法可以达到更大的生产规模,有效降低单位生产成本,对环境地表的破坏会更大,而且要求沥青要在地表或离地表很近,对100米以下的沥青无法开挖。目前其它的开采办法还有THAI-空气燃烧法,SUB-ELEC.地下电加热法,但都不是非常主流,所以并没有很准确的生产数据。: w- Y* N; i) O, k8 [/ h
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另外一个对沥青加工成本影响最大的是UPGRADING PROCESS,这套工艺的初期投入巨大,一套100000BBL/D的UPGRADER的投入大约是10 BILLION,但它的产品SYNTHETIC OIL和标准原油的差价并不大,所以原油降价影响最大的就是UPGRADER的PROJECT,目前阿省准备或计划建的7套UPGRADER都已经HOLD OR DELAY,但目前的价格50-60并不会太大影响MINGING OR SAGD 的项目, 譬如PETRO-CAN的FORTHILL MINGING 和 SAGD MAX,IMPERIAL OIL 的 KEARL , SUNCOR firebag II, TOTAL,HUSKY, ENCANA, CONNACHER 的SAGD并没有受到影响。
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发表于 2008-11-9 14:38 | 显示全部楼层
另外一个就是到今年上半年,阿省政府并不允许直接出口沥青,这就是石油公司不得不在本地建UPGRADER的原因,但目前石油降到接近50,省政府不得不同意石油公司可以出口沥青到美国,由美国的重油炼制厂处理,目前德州和墨西哥湾的3座炼制厂正在改进装置用以加工来自阿省的沥青质重油。但代价是阿省会损失100-150 B的投资,和不利于阿省发展精细化工加工业,及精细化工所衍生的巨大化工下游产业。
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发表于 2008-11-9 14:50 | 显示全部楼层
石油行业要求上下游装置配套,如此才能获取最大利润。4 d& g# B5 j/ U
原油是resource,最基本的。) I0 _' k, j, P! @& b! N. C+ ~+ O0 Y& I
炼油是粗加工,例如炼油厂也就是refinery,炼油厂之中已经可以生产汽柴油以及航空煤油,但是如果要高质量的汽柴油,那么就要需要裂解装置以及加氢装置。
2 k8 ?% q3 K1 k& h乙烯是介于精加工和粗加工之间,比较而言还是原料,但已经是高级原料了,例如乙烯,聚乙烯,聚丙烯,苯乙烯,乙醇/乙二醇等。
5 x' O! {/ ]9 D化工厂是精细化工,例如生产纤维等
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发表于 2008-11-9 18:58 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 自由的像风 于 2008-11-8 21:07 发表
) c8 j8 U, @& F- m' h不好说啊!这个东西是人算出来的,可以不断更改。
3 j, E+ ]  }& |, E+ M$ w' K- `: U  F公司自己声称:生产成本Sycrude $32  Suncor $28 但是,鬼知道这里都包含什么成分,当年,油价在十几美元的时候,油沙公司照样生产。

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当时的说法:油价在 ¥15,可保局势稳定。¥15以下就撑不住了。
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发表于 2008-11-10 07:19 | 显示全部楼层
老杨团队,追求完美;客户至上,服务到位!
今天原油价格要大涨了,中国新政出台
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发表于 2008-11-10 20:30 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 catty 于 2008-11-10 07:19 发表
; j; F" t; h: l! R; u6 Y$ p8 M9 l今天原油价格要大涨了,中国新政出台
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+ Q4 h. T( ~# P仅广东省就要投2.3万亿拉动内需,中国的区区四万亿能够保住明年GDP的9%的增长就不错了,个人感觉中国的新政策很难对油价产生作用。4 p# |; l+ v; {/ z0 S8 Y) k5 c! K& ?

- T9 ^" d9 W. {) K8 W; o倒闭潮蔓延情况紧急 广东2.3万亿救经济' U! q6 ]* n6 c* p% Y7 r2 M! K

. P' G3 J5 ^* F6 ~/ v救市行动停不了,中国四万亿方案是为了自保
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