二手汽车 老柳教车

埃德蒙顿华人社区-Edmonton China

 找回密码
 注册
查看: 18069|回复: 104

我也来卖车/换车

[复制链接]
鲜花(11) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2008-7-6 09:30 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
老杨团队,追求完美;客户至上,服务到位!
两辆好车,其中TOYOTA SOARER 可作收藏车。请看:7 a' i& n8 Y. k# @7 P( F9 c2 Y
http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/c-cars ... 0-W0QQAdIdZ60357723
3 s. S2 W' ]( W( B3 s8 k0 M9 W9 b: T5 b- R. c5 a# M
价格可小议,但不可大砍!咨询请留言于此或 zhou.shawn@yahoo.com, 谢谢惠顾!
鲜花(0) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2008-7-6 10:22 | 显示全部楼层
贵了, milieage: 135K 是mile还是km
鲜花(11) 鸡蛋(0)
 楼主| 发表于 2008-7-6 11:54 | 显示全部楼层

想要,可谈

是KM。& r' D. M. d7 x5 t# K' D- f
你觉得这车该值多少? 要不你找一辆你满意的来做个比较!谢谢!
鲜花(34) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2008-7-6 13:39 | 显示全部楼层
老杨团队 追求完美
右舵轮,日本原装进口?
鲜花(0) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2008-7-6 20:40 | 显示全部楼层
不怕我说可以啊,要比较很容易的
4 l" x/ N; c; _! }+ c1 C- Z+ X& k; [( `0 y) O; r$ x# C& r/ K" h1 D
Soarer虽然是TT,而且是JDM,但是在去年AB进口车的风潮中,这种车早就贬值得很厉害了,参考MR2, 前年售价大概是1w2左右,去年中6000就能买到低端的. 而且那个rims图片中真看不出是after market的,除了见仁见智的轮胎,看不出任何改装过或者出彩的痕迹,洋人论坛有卖你这价的,但是改得不是一般得凶,现在还不是放了两月卖不出去. l1 H  h/ I( `6 z* ]" f! a4 v( k* t
105 000km的公里数相对于JDM的车,有点高. 说真的,这车在这个论坛很难卖出去的,放在洋人论坛,price drop到8500左右,1个月之内估计能卖出去,艾,卖车就是看运气,* y2 M6 `. }+ n1 s5 T8 T
3 m8 [+ j! B+ C' X2 e
BMW我不懂,不乱说
鲜花(11) 鸡蛋(0)
 楼主| 发表于 2008-7-6 23:09 | 显示全部楼层
这位朋友,我为何要怕你说呢?车就是这样。6 X0 Q) K; M, S1 C
你开始问的是BMW,现在看来主要是对SOARER有看法了。. j9 P7 U, X% {, n* P+ z8 e
你既然要谈,那我就和你聊聊。鄙人虽然不懂车,但也爱车。十余年下来,对车有那么一点点常识。没错,我也见过5000元左右的右舵车,比如NISSAN 240,300Z,TOYOTA SUPRA, MAR2以及SOARER 等,但那基本上都在多伦多以及其他东岸城市,那里还有2万元左右的2007年的BMW7,你要吗?当然这里也有那么一些从日本进来,有些部件没有修复的低价位车。再说,各车的配制也很有差别。再再说,至于DEALER多少钱进的,我不知道,也不感兴趣,我只知道我去年夏天是以高于现在的价格买的,而且也就是这个行情。上网溜达一下,大部分的JDM RHD车,基本上是1989~1993年的,而且价格基本上是在一万左右。这包括比SOARER 要低档些的NISSAN 300Z 以及240。再再再说,对于这车,我可没说我这车改装过,我也没有理由要改装它,原装挺好,我不是发烧友!我也没说是新轮胎,没骗人(扁平胎的轮纹本来就浅些,橡胶要硬些。再说,买车不是买轮胎。花几百元,在网上可连好轮胎带轮毂一起买)!2.5升的发动机,在3860转时带来280匹马力的峰值,最高时速可超240公里。虽然是1992年的车,可除了现代的导航雷达以外,现在有的配制该车基本上都有。无论如何,这是一款首先在美国推出的豪华车,其价格可比BMW 和BENZ,纯正的日本本土用的LEXUS血统(看看我附加的网址就知道)。虽然是92年的,可现在刚过10万公里(其实才10万3千公里,为好听,凑了个整10万5)。之所以要这价格,是因为右舵(其实开惯了一样,我从卡尔加里买回的时候,虽然之前没开过右舵,还是开了就回。哈。。。),如果是10万公里的1992年的LEXUS SC400 (V8而没有涡轮增压,几乎和这带双涡轮的2.5 一样的马力), 你说应该卖多少钱?6 |. N0 d2 {$ [! Y
    算了,我也不多说了,我本来就喜欢沉默!情况就是这么个情况,事情就是这么个事情。对了,我如果没有记错的话,你是专卖车的。1 e" t! _( s* U8 k2 G  w

" @  S# `) t% V; K$ q( L; M[ 本帖最后由 晓风残月 于 2008-7-7 00:58 编辑 ]
鲜花(11) 鸡蛋(0)
 楼主| 发表于 2008-7-6 23:40 | 显示全部楼层
老杨团队,追求完美;客户至上,服务到位!
这位朋友,我为何要怕你说呢?车就是这样。: G# f; Z" `; D1 T9 i1 Z& Y- w
你开始问的是BMW,现在看来主要是对SOARER有看法了。5 ]5 n$ C0 M/ L% w4 X1 P
你既然要谈,那我就和你聊聊。鄙人虽然不懂车,但也爱车。十余年下来,对车有那么一点点常识。没错,我也见过5000元左右的右舵车,比如NISSAN 240,300Z,TOYOTA SUPRA, MAR2以及SOARER 等,但那基本上都在多伦多以及其他东岸城市,那里还有2万元左右的2007年的BMW7,你要吗?当然这里也有那么一些从日本进来,有些部件没有修复的低价位车。再说,各车的配制也很有差别。再再说,至于DEALER多少钱进的,我不知道,也不感兴趣,我只知道我去年夏天是以高于现在的价格买的,而且也就是这个行情。上网溜达一下,大部分的JDM RHD车,基本上是1989~1993年的,而且价格基本上是在一万左右。这包括比SOARER 要低档些的NISSAN 300Z 以及240。再再再说,对于这车,我可没说我这车改装过,我也没有理由要改装它,原装挺好,我不是发烧友!我也没说是新轮胎,没骗人(扁平胎的轮纹本来就浅些,橡胶要硬些。再说,买车不是买轮胎。花几百元,在网上可连好轮胎带轮毂一起买)!2.5升的发动机,在3860转时带来280匹马力的峰值,最高时速可超240公里。虽然是1992年的车,可除了现代的导航雷达以外,现在有的配制该车基本上都有。无论如何,这是一款首先在美国推出的豪华车,其价格可比BMW 和BENZ,纯正的日本本土用的LEXUS血统(看看我附加的网址就知道)。虽然是92年的,可现在刚过10万公里(其实才10万3千公里,为好听,凑了个整10万5)。之所以要这价格,是因为右舵(其实开惯了一样,我从卡尔加里买回的时候,虽然之前没开过右舵,还是开了就回。哈。。。),如果是10万公里的1992年的LEXUS SC400 (V8而没有涡轮增压,几乎和这带双涡轮的2.5 一样的马力), 你说应该卖多少钱?7 P  D  h! A( U
    咱以前在国内喜欢赛车10年前喜欢赛摩托,5年前喜欢飑汽车,但非常爱惜车,无论新车旧车好车烂车。能不刹车就不刹车,轻踩油门,缓慢转弯,躲避坑洼。最主要的一点就是,对于自动档的车,在发动机转速在2000转左右的时候,轻松油门,使之换档。也就是说,我的车辆一般是不超过2200转的,大部分里程是在2000转以下完成的。不似老外门,起步就往死里轰油,把转速往3000甚至4000转奔。同样行使1万公里,发动机的损耗可不一样;10万公里,那差别就大了去了。我如果没有记错的话,你是专卖车的。你是行家,这点你应该懂吧!6 v4 s) E! A) W: [0 H+ W
    算了,我也不多说了,我本来就喜欢沉默!情况就是这么个情况,事情就是这么个事情。' Y1 O" w) m7 }7 E2 o; Z; o
9 J9 V9 z& p- x/ P6 O5 E+ C: f+ q
添一点点:
" P! p& [8 _! E
4 I" v% }5 I( f4 E0 W发动机正时皮带(TIMING BELT)是在9800公里左右的时候换的;发动机室出奇的整洁,基本上看不见一根交错的管子或者电线;发动机出奇地安静,不渗透一点点机油的气息,至于漏机油,就更无从谈起了;整车无锈,所有部件运转正常,但保险杠左前端有轻微擦伤。我虽然痛恨日本鬼子(其实,现在的美国鬼子更可恨。),但还是惊叹它们(不是他们)的制造技术和工艺。) h$ Y5 X5 B: ^. ]6 A- _
    卖车口号:诚心者,价可议。无心者,请勿扰!再次感谢!2 l( }0 }6 ~9 l) m4 d. K# q

3 r  v) _# V0 h( h3 F. @[ 本帖最后由 晓风残月 于 2008-7-7 01:15 编辑 ]
鲜花(0) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2008-7-7 00:51 | 显示全部楼层
本人不才,正好做过从日本进车的dealer的生意,自己也开,你说东岸我不知道,我们就说这里.beyond上你自己看,何必让我了解那些我已经很了解的市场.2 S# W% a* A% b
9 Q' v4 R0 w% A% H
你买的高于这个价我同意,本来,那时候就是这么高,但是市价是变化的,这个你关心一下市场就知道了,主要是calgary一班日本人搞的鬼.! t5 T5 I- m  }$ u- s7 c

: ~% \% s# w& U8 _8 g6 {如果我帖一票7000多的JDM的300z 240 mr2,怕把你的帖子毁了
' ^' Q: i, l- e$ Z, o% o1 n. _) Z$ B2 |" F; y; @* \, U
你的SOARER居然是自动档,价格又要跌了,另外高转engine和低转engine的开法不一样,你一直低于2000转开车,对车的损耗更大,不过你是自动档,无话可说,
老柳教车
鲜花(0) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2008-7-7 01:12 | 显示全部楼层
老杨团队,追求完美;客户至上,服务到位!
turbo车才难保养列,你居然一直2000转开,而且没有turbo timer,% x" `, h" ~& `6 Q. p
/ H3 q7 \" p5 T' F9 T) f- I$ `. v
估计里面肯定堵得一塌糊涂了
鲜花(11) 鸡蛋(0)
 楼主| 发表于 2008-7-7 20:15 | 显示全部楼层

别说你是DEALER,你就是鸟DEALER又如何?

老杨团队,追求完美;客户至上,服务到位!
第一讲   口舌之快
3 U' ?+ W2 a0 N( i- P       尊敬的DEALER同志,“您老人家”可真能忽悠!本以为你是行家,带着学习的态度,客气给你自由,请你评价,没想到你还真不客气,登鼻子上脸,还就以行家的口气尽放外行话不说,竟然还攻击我的爱车啊?不但不学无术,还无口德,这让寡人很不爽啊!明知道俺胆汁高、善冲动、易激怒,加上心理素质低,你却口无遮拦,满嘴放炮,害得我工作都不安心。你这是要让老板砸我饭碗啊!我这份工作虽然是没有费什么力气从中介那里得来的,但也起了个大早,也不容易的。你这不是在损我的车,是借此将我往死里整啊!!!啊!!!“您”是将“无毒不丈夫”发挥得淋漓尽致,我气愤之余也还对你佩服有加!
& \. M+ q% I5 E# q1 Y9 A3 O  c    我曾见识过你攻击别人售车的“风采”,不明白你意欲何为?是想提高自身销售业绩而损人利己?好像关联不大;是有损人不利己的癖好?那得去找藏医;抑或是“芙蓉姐姐”而哗众取宠,吸引眼球而提高人气?那我只好沉默。不看不知道,世界真奇妙。这林子大了,的确什么鸟都有。你不觉得你的存在有违这如“东风吹我过湖船,杨柳丝丝拂面。”的春天般的仲夏的惬意与和谐吗?
) x6 r5 v6 z) Y7 S* L; L    你满怀怜悯地告诫我:“如果我帖一票7000多的JDM的300z 240 mr2,怕把你的帖子毁了”的确彰显了阁下胸怀仁义。高,“您”真的好高,我需俯视才见。该说的不该说的你都说了,真的你当真的说了,假的你还是当真的说了,临跟我说GOOD BYE的时候却来个:我不想毁你的帖!真高人!你知道吃苹果时,什么情形让人最恶心吗?那就是一口下去,虫子的上半身在嘴里蠕动,下半身在果肉里挣扎。你这就是在让我和大伙吃虫子啊!不可谓不阴!毛主席说了,你这是笑里藏刀,你这是绵里藏针,你这是口蜜腹剑,你这是绝杀!打个粗俗的比方是既想当图利婊子,又想立贞节牌坊!(认同者请鼓励一下,来点掌声)。你要有什么屁,千万别憋着,尽情地释放吧!否则,你不快,我不爽,大伙更是痒难挡。高手,高人,你说是否?你有什么7000元的货源,就不妨告诉大伙吧,也给大伙做点贡献。我倒略知EDMONTON和CALGARY的确有为数不少的DEALER(也就是车贩子)在专营此类业务。其流程是:付订金-述车型概况要求及期望价-联系日本DEALER(查库存或临时搜货)-出关-货运-入关-办理相关手续包括交税(具体不详)-到手,周期2到3个月。风险:无论车况如何(无大问题),车到你就得要,否则订金飞了。为什么车况无保证呢?而且为什么进来的无论SOARER,SUPRA, MR2,还是HONDA 的S2000和PRELUDE,抑或NISSAN的300ZX FAIRLADY和240, 其档次有别(且某些新车价格甚至差别较大),但是其到手的价格而又相差无几呢?秘密在于这些车在日本均属报废车(据说日本本土新车使用5年或8年便须报废,加之日本地方拥挤,很多人不开车上下班,所以里程数少),对于日本的DEALER来说,相近年代的车况的好坏也就是好废品和次废品的区别,反正是废品,卖出价格相差不大。对于加拿大的DEALER来说,买车的本身的价格是小头,运费及相关手续及利润是大头,而对每一辆车,这些环节费用是固定的。也就是说每辆车的大头基本是相同的,所以,最后各车的到手价格也是差别不大了。而这些车中,有的就有很多小问题,比如说灯光不正常,刹车、TIMING BELT(取决于里程及驾驶方法)、水泵等需要更换,TURBO故障,音响(包括收音机及CD)鼓掌或被拆除,再就是天窗门窗及车身的其他问题。这些问题,相对于性能独特或者说优异的整车来说,也的确是小问题。但是,请别忘记,这里是加拿大,不是中国,这些小问题并不意味着小费用。运气好,7000你能捡个大便宜;运气不好(有小问题的车居多),你就得再花个几千元不等。我当时就是图个保险,才没有去DEALER那里订购的。当然了,你是DEALER,也许还有很多‘货真价实的宫廷秘闻’,那就别再藏着了,都抖出来吧?不要“半裸”的,要“全裸”。即便如此,又毁我何来?kijiji.ca、autotrader.ca和buysell.com上比我便宜点($10,000左右)有的是,比我贵的也满天飞,车况不同,配制不同,里程不同,改装程度不同,个人爱好不同。毁我?你还得再长条腿!!!!
$ t* l; d$ M6 V8 ?' h. F    唉,鄙人原本天生胆小怕事,来到这陌生的国度,更是谨小慎微而尚尤感忐忑不安。即便如此,却也不敢忘却祖宗遗训:大丈夫行于天地间,当须“威武而不屈,富贵而不淫,贫贱而不移”,故虽心有悸而不敢屈。十余年间走南闯北,也常伸张正义,甚至打架斗狠,可是后来的灯红酒绿更让我深悟社会道德沦丧,无奈势态炎凉,这其中苦涩与失望又怎能一句“老夫华发苍颜,平生塞北江南!“了得!犹豫再三,还是来这平和的加拿大过平静日子吧!未曾想到,这里也不那么平静。初来乍到之时,不堪港人欺辱、维护自尊和弘扬我龙血精神而欲快意恩仇,结果招来警察而差点入号;几月前好不容易起大早捡了个专业工作又碰上了自以为是、鄙视大陆的港人后裔,弄得我成天土鼻子灰脸,三次大怒欲发,终忍;现在,我的他认可我了,你老兄(不知道是不是大陆同胞)又来找碴。看来,这地方还真不那么好呆啊,至少比想像中的差多了!你说我卖我的车,也没有妨碍你吃喝拉撒夜生活,你却云里来雾里去地子虚乌有地糟践我的爱车。你这是故意让我老人家不痛快啊!你厉害,我怕你,我不卖了,我抱这两辆车回国去行不?我倒是想行,可两国政府不允许,乡音更不许。就这么走了,我有何颜面去凭吊至今犹唱“自信人生二百年,会当击水三千里”故乡---橘子洲?所以啊,虽然惶恐,我还得咬牙死扛。, h) [; W6 b$ l' p. X& e! i
    哦,废话半天,我又差点忘了你是行家:做过日本DEALER的生意----自我DEALER----弄JDM,所以你放出了让我耳目一新的论点:高转速车需高转速开......你的TURBO车竟然一直2000转开,而且没有TURBO TIMER,估计里面肯定堵得一塌糊涂了。行家就是行家,咱本来就是来自湘西的土匪文盲,又没干过DEALER,自然发不出你这般“高论”----------------------------一点机械常识都不懂,还自称“不才”,我看你不是“不才”,是无德之腐材。为冠你如此美名?饭后的下节我就免费给你这自称DEALER的“机盲”讲讲汽车发动机、涡轮增加机以及曲轴箱变速箱的基本原理、磨损实质和使用方法。# v% h2 }: D* U# L
' H" [: D: P6 K! X6 Q) Z% m
[ 本帖最后由 晓风残月 于 2008-7-7 22:05 编辑 ]
鲜花(0) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2008-7-7 20:59 | 显示全部楼层
这个,要说可以放开说,那我就斗胆说两点,我觉得开始已经口下留情了,您觉得我不好,那我就再说两句,以示清白! F) D. M5 W( j+ X2 c

, @! J# k4 f8 O: ^你的车看似过得去,其实仔细深究,立马能看出点门道
) V5 j! x" F9 \4 b1 `) I& J1 A3 i# q9 N
第一. 几手车的问题,  从日本进来的车,在日本就是一手或者两手,从加拿大进必然是走日本dealer的路线,至少是2手到3手,到了加拿大又是一手,您也说了不是dealer手上买的,车到你手上,至少是3手到4手的车了,如果谁买了您的车,很可能是第五手的车主,这个买车的不得不掂量掂量了+ ?/ q4 Q8 L3 M  E4 J. o
1 O& k$ k* F' |
第二. Turbo车的保养, 带T车保养是大学问,经常以2000的转数开车,Turbo是打不出来的,而turbo是靠废气推动,废气是含油的,不能经常打出turbo意味着废气打不出去,慢慢就积累成油垢,turbo很快就会废掉. 而且您turbo timer似乎都不知道是什么,肯定不知道turbo车开一段时间,最好不要马上熄火,涡轮的降温是由废气以及机油来完成的。发动机要是不工作,机油跟废气就无法来循环降温,对车很伤.高转引擎的车经常怠速开,容易积炭过多,伤!+ D4 T8 _* C/ {' l3 [( x7 L

- v5 n. F" t) ^. ]/ k第三. 大马力的车一般是手动,自动的很罕见,为什么,因为自动无法发挥车原有的性能, 特别是日本这种带TT的,不知道您从哪里买来的车,不过不得不说,卖给您车的人真是狠狠的宰了您一笔. 如果说不是这类型的车,自动车甚至比手动好卖,但是这种玩的带T的,自动就是鸡肋,不是值不值钱的问题,而是卖不卖得出去得问题, 以你十于载开车得经验,居然会收藏这种类型得车,不得不让我质疑您开车得级数. 最重要的是,您现在也明白这个道理,故意没再广告里面提到,我只能说,您在要求别人有诚意的外衣下,自己是不是也有诚意3 C( }5 S! R! n8 F! w: R5 @
3 r% f: o, t5 b
第四. 我问您既然没有改过为什么要以改车的价格卖? 而您的回答是,"我不是"发烧友"".答非所问,我给出这个链接,对比一下您的车和发烧友的车, http://forums.780tuners.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83305
) C4 R7 Z, K1 x1 M/ O* W他的车6W多公里,绚亮的橘红色,全新的论坛轮圈,改过灯,音响,数字屏幕,blow off,Intake 和 air filter,有所有收据和用最好的引擎油, 以及全新的timing belt和water pump  才买1w? 您的? 我都不好意思说,什么都没改,10w快11w公里还卖1w1
3 P4 I+ ^0 @8 n9 J1 w1 j+ y9 l+ t$ r% g* e
第五, 说到water pump,我想到一个奇怪的事情.那就是您的车,为什么提到timing belt确没有提到water pump,这两个东西按理都应该一次一起换的,为什么您只换了timing belt确不提water pump? 其实综合上面说的,呵呵,很简单, 当初您买来车以后开得挺爽,结果买来没多久就问题多多,这和您开车的习惯也有关系,好马这样开也会开废, 结果您一检查,居然timing belt要换,这个可不是小数目,另外water pump虽然不要马上换,但是如果是爱车之人,自然一起换了,不然又要花大价钱把引擎pull出来,贵, 其实是不是您换timing belt的时候就想这把车早点脱手,所以没换water pump,及其不负责任..到时候买了您的车的人又要换water pump,不便宜啊6 Z, @% ?! A* K" f2 m
9 F9 c9 D7 y5 I4 u2 O
第六, 本身SOARER这个车型为什么这里这么少,有原因的,说得好听是速度力量于舒适兼顾,其实是三头都靠不上,车身又重,要飙不一定飙得过,不飙又浪费了马力不好保养,这也是mr2 rx7在这里很多得原因,有特点自然卖得快.这车还非常废油,想必也是您一直1000多转2000转开车的原因吧
3 S+ X2 K. i% }6 I; ^0 g# e- a/ Q/ n1 I' l
至于您说我有得7000得那些资源,beyond上一堆,至于您车卖不卖得掉,看您得造化了,不得不说您的BMW我是看不出啥~: l& f1 J, l2 C  D) U# v( a
' p. B  Y1 I2 M8 i3 L0 J7 l
[ 本帖最后由 西御寺 于 2008-7-7 22:08 编辑 ]
鲜花(0) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2008-7-7 21:06 | 显示全部楼层
至于您的人生攻击,全忽略了,没必要吧,我开始就说了句"贵了" 何必呢
1 d+ `) C4 g9 A$ N1 U+ |* j0 W  Z# v# {
对比那个780的发烧友的车,您还觉得您的车价格"适中"吗
5 W  v- q1 Z/ Q% D5 f/ }3 E
4 `! f. d" P! p- E0 M9 @# p[ 本帖最后由 西御寺 于 2008-7-7 22:11 编辑 ]
鲜花(0) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2008-7-7 21:12 | 显示全部楼层

回复 10楼 晓风残月 的帖子

同言同羽 置业良晨
晓什么什么
5 ~' T+ R) C4 \* f1 n
# w0 i; J: J5 a. e7 T" ?7 d4 ^6 ]4 l8 X! b没你这么脏口骂人的,你什么东西啊加拿大就是被你给弄脏的.
, H7 p% k4 R. `$ v6 E
% ^' w8 K- K6 V1 y9 P8 k别一脸泼妇样你功力没到呢,打算踩着别人脑袋登上去的人见多了.  就你没素质.
鲜花(0) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2008-7-7 21:26 | 显示全部楼层

回复 10楼 晓风残月 的帖子

老杨团队,追求完美;客户至上,服务到位!
你还真有时间写那么一大段来表现自己的肤浅。。。辛苦你了
/ H2 T1 F; b# W# p" i. ]7 d2 w就你这种素质还出来卖车。。。
) w% \- V7 W+ o+ m, I你这个价钱,这个车,别说没人有兴趣,就是有兴趣的,看到你这番话也退出去了
鲜花(0) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2008-7-7 21:42 | 显示全部楼层
就车论车,楼主讲别的就是废话,没水平。
鲜花(116) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2008-7-7 21:44 | 显示全部楼层
这里的学问还真不少
鲜花(11) 鸡蛋(0)
 楼主| 发表于 2008-7-8 01:05 | 显示全部楼层

第二讲 答你所问----DEALER您可真不让人省心!

同言同羽 置业良晨
对了,你那样所谓的“口下留情”还不如这等赤裸裸爽快!下面我就答记者问:' j+ D! Y; P+ C6 V
' e! w0 I2 z# I' i! P$ U3 K
第一,别人几手车我不知道,我的是二手:DEALER-前车主-我,有据为证。二手的前提:从DEALER那来算一手。也就是说,我的充其量比网上非DEALER卖的多一手。不是四手五爪,让你失望了,不好意思。5 ]3 J8 K7 ?' B& R% \
第二,亲爱的,确切地说,就传动能源来说,目前的TURBO有两种。一种是机械式的,无明显滞后的;另一种也就是你所说的TURBO,是鼓风式样的,有明显滞后的。说白了它就是靠排气驱动汽轮机,再由汽轮机带动空压机(增压机),以增加进气比重而达到单位时间内增大氧量,提高热效率,增加焓值以获得高功率输出的发动机附加装置。一般说来,转速达到3000转左右及以上的时候,TURBO的威力才能发挥出来。但是,这并不说明TURBO车就非要在3000转及以上行驶以防堵TURBO。否则,以5档甚至6档运行于3000转以上,那至少是120公里的时俗以上。这样以来,别说普通路面无法满足,就是这加拿大的告诉公路,也很少有限速120公里的。依你高论,大部分路况下,大部分TURBO车,包括现在带T的奥迪、大众、斯巴鲁、萨博等只能在2档3档行使,自动档则不需要D档,更不应该设计在2000转左右自动换档,而应该是3000以上,手动档则无需5档甚至4档(某些车),这样的车我买不到,更没见过。这点也同样驳斥你所谓的其他高转速非TURBO车。再说,给车增加TURBO就是为了提高热效率,获得高功率,可常年在城市以2档甚至1档运行于3000转以上,油非但省不了,车的寿命也比非TURBO短一小半吧!看来汽车设计师皆醉,你这DEALER独醒!至于保养,是要麻烦点点,但也不似你鼓吹的那么玄虚,是什么大学问。比如机油用合成油,最好勤一点,换油的方法也可再精细些(在这不告诉你,我将告诉未来的车主),开车前的热车以及高速行驶后熄火等主意事项。
. o! ?2 W; P& k( J0 a    确切地说,腐蚀及堵塞TURBO的因素有多种,积碳、油渗透以及飞灰和硫化物是主因。其中你所说的废气含油,对于保养良好的发动机来说,是以PPM来计算的。提高转速是能加速废气中含油冲刷速度,有利于排放。但同时,你别忘了,发动机转速的提高,尤其是瞬间急提的同时,也会加重废气中的油、碳和其他燃烧不充分物。因此,一味地以提高转速来达到防堵的目的可不是设计TURBO车的本意,如上述。转速、燃烧效率、防堵应该有一个平衡区,也就是理想状态区。对于SOARER,我的做法是:多时于经济转速也就是2000转左右行驶(匀速行于D档),偶尔兴趣使然,猛超个车,猛提提速。$ W5 {' w( I2 o; `; C" I: d* I
    再说TURBO TIMER,我是不懂!我只知道它是一个延时熄火器,其主要部件就是一个延时继电器,小体积、高价位、长寿命的是固态继电器(知道什么是固态延时继电器不?)这玩艺的功能就是在车辆连续远距离高速(高转速)行驶后,驾驶者便拔钥匙停车后能延续3分钟左右自动熄火,让机油和排气持续冷却高温的发动机及TURBO,以免内部件因高温受损(这点你竟然蒙对了,不简单。)但是,这玩艺我用不着,大多数原车也不配。为什么呢? 因为一来我启动车前热个30秒以上,我也不远距离持续高温驾驶它,万一与人飚一下,我也会在快回家要停车的前几分钟2000转行驶,碰上红灯和让、停标志,我还会怠速一下。实在不行,我会在熄火前,抽根烟,再实在不行,我再抽一根。相反,这东东是专门给你这类所谓的行家DEALER改装准备的,因为没有它,你变不会迟3分钟熄火,这在任何路况下(即使红灯,你也不想让它怠速,因为你怕它的TURBO堵啊)也要被你保持3000转(也许高得多,我低估了)以上的它来说,那可是致命的。附带说一下,我的TURBO买前没有堵(有CALGARY的INSPECTION为证),小半年(大半年闲置,舍不得踏雪,我开他车)下来也不堵,你是DEALER,我也有MECHANIC的朋友。要不,咋们小赌一下下:堵了,它属你;不堵,你能给我什么?别说是免费的一万一千加元。你敢吗?在回答前,把手伸进裤裆,摸摸自己有没有NUANZI(刘伯承老帅在大别山说的。另外,你如果是女人,此话作废!)
6 t- m3 K7 H6 p+ R2 Z* v第三,(费这半天劲了,才三,不知谁给稿费?)我不管什么大马力小马力,轿车也好、跑车也罢,有喜欢手动档的,也有喜欢自动档的。我不否认如要发挥跑车性能之极至,想要电影里演示的那般酣畅,手动档还真优于自动档。但是,朋友,请别忘记,就是给你手动加手动的档,那跑车的性能是谁都能发挥到极限的吗?又是你等所能体验的吗?再说了,谁说自动档跑车就非要比手动档的便宜了?你的车是那样卖的,我的不那样卖,网上大多数此类车也好像并没有那样叫价。还是你牛啊,你是DEALER,是行家,是裁判!!!再说了,谁说自动档就不酣畅了。让你见识一下自动档SOARER的最高时速以及你要的酣畅,就是怕你心脏受不起:
: q) C- S5 c5 n/ d- s( \8 P " p9 U' V7 B' k7 {
下面内容引自http://www.lexusclub.co.uk/home.htm
  s) v' W7 o0 {' _# A2 Y Soarer Engine & Electrics& h" k6 T% V- I5 `2 h
We all understand what happens when we turn the Key in the Ignition,... don't we! * Z/ P% }$ Z! m" h
4 }7 k1 G- @% n* c' f5 M( w
OK, in its simplest form: - A battery energises two electrical circuits, the first to ready the Coil to create a Spark, the other feeds the Starter motor, this little device turns the engine over for a couple of cycles of its 4 stroke sequence, during this critical time the whole thing must become completely self-sustaining, if not then the damn thing just churns away sounding like a hopelessly huge coffee-grinder. 1 K+ l) t6 @# e$ o

' I1 G0 o; J6 |- M7 U/ [! ?The valves have to open and close at the right time, that spark has to generated and delivered at the right time with sufficient spite to ignite the correctly metered fuel/air mixture, it must also take care of keeping itself cool, lubricate itself, dispose of its effluent, be reasonably quiet, free from excessive vibration, generate sufficient stored energy to do the trick time and again and after doing all this it has to have enough left over to push indifferently shaped tin cans at speeds suitable to be regarded as effective transport. # F1 ]; b. {( B% n4 u* _
+ ~* R# Q2 y) E1 L# T  X
The above encapsulates the sequence in which we will deal with the individual elements of the Spark Ignited Internal Combustion Engine and the Transmission as it is on our cars.
8 t/ Q$ [7 t. c$ v( j8 n
1 k" T* o$ [7 u) v2 {+ d+ r; A9 n9 SAnyone who has visited the Sistine Chapel in the Vatican City cannot fail to have seen the Masterpiece by Michaelangelo titled 'God giving life to Adam', those who have not been, will know the painting as the one with the spark of life passing from the One to the other. And it is a Spark that brings our cars to life, it is not as significant as the 'Great spark' but it is the same! % v8 t6 M9 J9 B
( j6 j5 X0 L  t5 u: ~) F
We, as mere mortals, cannot call on the man at the top of the stairs to get our cars moving (although as a disgruntled Italian car owner I have invoked his name in vain) so we have a humble Battery. Humble but effective, it has to cope with vibration, G-forces- both negative and positive, huge temperature variations, and minimal, sometimes non-existent, maintenance. 9 {1 F" S% |9 _- q( O0 S: C; K
) e" q5 C# v$ X. E% ?2 L
A car battery consists of 6 polypropylene cells connected in series, each cell contains alternate plates with opposing charges with separators the charging mass is immersed in Sulphuric Acid/Distilled Water known as the Electrolyte. The low/no maintenance battery is brought about by the simple exclusion of antimony in the Lead alloy plates. This reduces gas generation and so the electrolyte does not so readily boil off. Deep cycle batteries have fibreglass or felt included in the separators meaning the lead does not scale or form sludge when the discharge is heavy or prolonged. - r1 `$ |, B  a' R5 a" m

0 X* v( S1 q0 f$ L) z* ^3 k9 a, {That spark.
$ @1 q5 Y+ R- u" C1 K! T$ Z  ~- r: Z& t# z1 y+ W/ ?/ p9 s2 f
How do we get something as spiteful as a really bright crackling spark from something that you can grab by the terminals with impunity?
/ E7 d: T7 O! h4 B6 L4 Y. k  _4 o4 L$ n) _2 Z+ X0 B
That's the ignitions' job and it's the Coil in particular that gives the low voltage that it receives the tension sufficient to jump the Spark Plug gap. It does this by storing the bit of power between the sparks and 'grouping' it all into one single slug of spite, this is achieved by the Coil acting as a Transformer jumping the voltage from 12v to 30,000v, lightning in a little package. : _0 K/ T7 p6 y: X8 d* m7 o5 \- B
9 |3 _9 Q; F8 `
Its' delivery is controlled on the Soarer by dint of a Crankshaft angle sensor which supplies the Electronic Distributor with a stream of Timing ticks and from this and other info the spark is delivered at just the right moment. + C2 G: D0 m! m3 h3 N! u
$ N! g& A( h1 r. F1 T
At exactly the same time there is a drain on the battery for the Starter Motor This is a simple Shunt wired electric motor, Shunt just means the torque is optimised at initial starting, this is essential to overcome the initial mass of the dormant Engine, to start an SI-ICE it needs to turn over at about 80rpm +/- 20 rpm the SM is geared down usually 10/12:1 by putting gear teeth on the outside of the flywheel and a small pinion gear on the end of the SM. There are 3 essential parts to a Starter Motor: % b3 j6 r+ D; _" C, m
! U! N7 g! k2 g. i2 I. {0 U6 K
1 Electric Motor. (Capable of circa 1,000 rpm) ! i! s- }' P7 I$ e
2 Pinion-engaging drive. (clutch; inertial or piston or pre-engaged) ' o6 Q: A( m& g0 r8 P
3 An over-running clutch.
0 [% g8 T" A, [% X0 k; |' K4 h. Q, k8 {1 ]
The operating sequence is as follows:
, p- @6 ^. ]' u' W& H$ S  U; t3 k5 S) j% E* C
The pinion gear is forced to engage the flywheel, then the Starter turns, as the Engine starts it will overtake the Starter and the over-run clutch operates. 1 sec of starter use produces only 1/1½ revolutions of the Engine, on the 6 cylinder cars that's just 3/5 power strokes or for the V8, 4/6 strokes, most cars start after about 8 power strokes. Yes, 8 cylinder cars really do start twice as quickly as 4 cylinder.
& I! _& E) ^6 Z& E/ m( I  d$ f- ]/ ~9 K
So, everything's in place to start it, we need to take a good look at what we are about to begin. We should be grateful!
% s* l* z$ j- f0 t* W8 D
( _' C7 P3 n( t( KThe fundamental question the Car Designer asks is what will this car be for, is it a bolide for hoi polloi or a carriage for the refined, this question is so much more important than you may think.
, g& d3 N  K" U9 C# ]9 I: V( h( {" \; N8 _# ^1 M; y0 l6 g
No car that has any claim on refinement can have less than 6 cylinders, any less and you have to start to put counter-weights, or pulleys and gears on or near the crankshaft. At risk of upsetting the V8 members, the only Engine configuration that is naturally devoid of harmonics is in units of 6. Straight 6 at that, so a V12 or Flat12 is also free of harmonics (it is, effectively, 2 straight 6's), and the Flat6 also, NOT a Boxer6.
2 y- l5 m$ e  S, o1 J; u5 c8 t; y4 w  e: b) ?
The only engine worth its salt after those just mentioned is the twin-plane 90deg V8 with the addition of simple counter-weights it is rendered completely devoid of harmonics allowing its inclusion in the Iain Wiltshire Book of the Great and the Good. Excluded is the latest TVR engine, it is vile, it is a single plane 90deg V8 so it is effectively 2, 4 cylinder engines glued together thus doubling that horrid 2nd order free FORCE, and that's why the 4 cylinder engine is never in a real Gentleman's Carriage. 5 G  y9 m3 \$ i+ {9 {* |
  N& v6 }2 |- a+ [  ^7 ~. `
The 2nd order free Moments can never be eliminated in any V6. I must concede however that a 90deg V6 is very smooth when it has 6 throws of the crankshaft, it has the lowest level of 2nd order harmonics of all the V6's. All other V6's have various levels of harmonics that detract from any virtue they may have gained through outright power.
1 c/ G6 _& d9 E9 ~  ^( m/ l$ m! w. E. Z$ T
It is for good reason that Early Bentleys, nearly all Aston's, Jag's, Armstrong Siddeley's, Humber's, big Rover's, you name it, if it has quality (or pretensions of it) then it has/had a Straight 6!
4 }4 }, b+ h: v5 D$ B  u2 t
2 e( G9 T& ~& }4 A) GRule of thumb. 4 u. P) {" U# N
Some V8's are good. 3 ?  P$ F& N: u4 g  z! ]8 Y
All Straight 6's are great.
- L3 V7 Q& r3 ?9 t. T1 bV12's are just bloody marvellous./ k9 `; A) ~+ Z5 n, a
* D3 A+ P. p! s; a  u
) s# i& O: v* ^0 b( f! D% s

0 q& G# X2 U" Y4 p+ C/ b9 _4 R: ?" O) J
D'yer remember the song "dem bones" . ^. c8 _/ L) O( t7 ^& `
Here we go: ; _: k) |1 K3 F; Y: A' D
- e6 t6 {1 D, Y  K3 x
The piston goes up and down (reciprocates) in the cylinder and is held to the Connecting rod by the gudgeon pin, the connecting rod's connected to the crankshaft by one of the journals, sometimes (incorrectly) called bearings. This turns the reciprocation into rotary motion. Remember, journals rotate about the crankshaft, bearings do not, they locate and hold the crankshaft in its place. I bet you think pistons are perfectly round, well your wrong, they are slightly oval, to allow for the Gudgeon Pin expansion.
4 P+ \. g- ~0 T! P) C% B/ O6 a# D. y; f; T; g8 Q
The design of the piston top is almost self-made; subject only to what use the car is put to. There may be little nicks and inclusions in it to allow for the valve train but the design is intrinsically simple now computers can define explosion wave fronts. This is not the case with regard to the Gudgeon Pin Location; its location within the skirt of the piston is an area where the Engine designer can show his skill in conjunction with the next element.
8 R) ?2 ~" p. M; o1 j* Q
. r6 w) u# t. }% q1 wI just stopped and went to my library (sounds very pretentious for a bookshelf) to see if I could find any books that give any credence at all to the design of the Connecting Rod. I found nothing in the modern books, but in the Pratt and Whitney Radial Engine Design compendium of 1948 I found a whole chapter devoted solely to that subject! I found the Maths to be simple at first then realised that it suffers from what used to be called Bifurcation theory or as most call it nowadays Chaos Theory! This one of those areas where the intuition/ nous/ skill/ experience of a good Engineer is worth more than theory. Look at it this way, if we imagine a con-rod that was 100mm long and the torque transfer was 100 units because of the nature of this complex piece of metal making it 101mm in theory should give slightly better torque say 101 units, but making it 102mm should give 102 units but it doesn't it gives 99 units, 103mm should equal103units-but gives 105 units its all over the place! Twin plane reciprocating things are like that, bloody unpredictable (mathematically).
# Q: T  H/ B6 v/ D5 C/ b( K# L, E. X7 ]. }& `# l
It has to be said that BMW were and still are the best at this piece of magic, remember that Pratt and Whitney Radials were based on the BMW blueprints and that the finest example of BMW's handiwork was the transformation of the later versions of the Junkers JU88. This 'plane was robust with a marvellous Airframe which was relatively heavy and the original pair of Junkers Jumo V12's were good but not powerful enough. Our Bavarian enemies designed a beautiful Radial for this 'plane and it was transformed, with its 4 man crew it could now outrun our fastest pathfinder (unarmed, superlightweight) Mosquito's, being capable of 450 Knots flat and level, fully armed. It then became the most devastating destroyer of anything that got in its path, Bomber or Fighter, even the Aircobra Mustangs were prey! Later the Junkers engineers put in 3000HP Diesel engines, so as to keep them in the Air for longer, but it is the BMW powered Ju88 that holds, without doubt, the title of the finest piston engined Fighter-Bomber ever. This is due in no small part to BMWs' innate understanding of the importance of the Piston stroke/con-rod length ratio. It seems to be overlooked nowadays. Sorry, went off on a tangent there. ! k* h7 ?( ^: g

& c+ s! G, b" {$ L& X2 BThe Soarer 2.5 TT has a better intrinsic ratio in this respect than the Supra 3.0 TT, the con-rod can define how quickly an Engine can accelerate internally. The gross limit to acceleration remains the same in (nearly) all engines but the amount taken by different lengths and masses is the element that controls the take-up, sometimes less really is more. 6 D0 u1 g; p3 |" Q" G

& l& e  t, w: N2 R, kThe V8 has a con-rod length very suited to Torque generation and long duration at 'constant' revolutions, the TT is set for revving readily, suiting the Ceramic Turbo's. . I9 F- D# r, @9 P

! `8 e5 A& O9 @% i% y: f9 VSo to the Crankshaft. : {8 q' X; b. Q9 ^1 \

5 T9 U# X4 D. e0 K( `! z" dThere are two main types of Crankshaft production. The first and most expensive is the Machined Billet, basically one piece of vacuum drawn steel, lathed to its final design with every part machined and polished.
" t2 J: y; ^. K" l5 t, B! h3 E) r* m2 d( H" }
It is the only way to get a truly reliable high revving unit.
4 P4 c5 t! o% s: H* g. s, M
3 B& C' Q" l; O& \: Y1 b0 ^The simpler, easier way is to cast the unit to its approximate shape, then it receives the attention of the lathe, but only on the Journals and Bearings and attachment points. Cast units are very good at being smooth running and the V8 is a paragon of smoothness.
& ~  B, b9 k# K6 G: Q; N# M/ a! B
The cutaway drawings show the TT with a Machined piece, the V8 with a cast, I have not seen them in the flesh so I cannot be certain, but it would make sense. 4 k0 p$ P. y7 y% X( B

; u7 J9 P# d& T3 p( c8 b8 n, LStrangely the cutaway drawings show the Supra as a cast unit!
, O5 k" F7 M* U; o: Q/ m
/ a3 j4 [& l; N" _* Z, Y+ \" M( A) TThe Crankshaft is held in place by bearings at the bottom of the Cylinder block. 6 P3 L5 X: n3 G
7 v' [. P8 {8 p0 b
The Crankshaft has to have a series of capillary tubes drilled into it to allow the lubricant to circulate and cushion the bearings and journals.   d. _/ ?8 L+ K$ i

4 }8 _. W% h1 j  |) h( n. IThe parts described above turn Reciprocating motions to rotational motion. Acceleration and Vibration. 6 y2 R% t7 W- F  C0 \, v

+ a5 g3 W7 |2 [/ D- e3 K; ~There is a physical limit to the acceleration that the individual parts of and engine can obtain, and as stated before, different engine use dictates design. ; [% r' V/ S. P1 r) z% X" \7 b' O$ A

2 k+ t  u9 A& g+ i, ~* }7 _Lets look at the V8 first, it has a Stroke of 82.5mm this means the eccentricity of the con-rod journal to the main bearings is half that figure, the diameter of the cylinder bore is 87.5mm. I'll let you into a simple engine design 'rule of thumb' 85mm bore is an approximate 'starting point' it produces equal torque and BHP per litre, if you increase the bore you get greater torque and less BHP per litre, and vice versa. The exact same relationship exists with the stroke, but the key figure here is 80mm. 0 M. W$ O* t- z9 i' j: Q5 q
# b/ x; X4 @0 o* Z
I have just re-read the previous paragraph after a few days break and am appalled by the sweeping statement I have just made, but it is nearly right and as close as I can get to the reality without taking up 50 pages of further explanation.
% h8 S0 z# R& P! Y8 f
! r5 K7 D$ E5 ]8 KMaximum Torque is always produced at lower RPM than maximum BHP. 0 L! M: [+ N. X1 b/ l, f
5 m. Q; a  y8 s& q! J* f
The con-rods on the V8 are also relatively long; this engenders high torque propagation and low explosion-expansion vibration moments, as they are more perpendicular in the part of the crankshaft rotation, which produces the most torque. So all this means that the V8 is designed to be on the torquey, muscular side of the design envelope, coupled to a cubic capacity of 4 litres it is no wonder it seems to feel like being swept forward by a giant hand! It does not need to be revved to produce the goods! . b1 D) j$ |9 ~" }4 C1 U
2 h- O$ [* G) @  ?1 @  ^: }) V% }
The TT is different in so many ways! $ P# W: Z2 C; g8 t% H' S6 j
4 x- J2 k6 V# i# K( \( G; e
The TT is a short stroke motor; that is to say it is designed to Rev, and does so, readily.
4 ?, b( o' P  [7 @5 G/ a/ G
; b$ [6 N" Z# t( zA Stroke of only 71.5mm and the inherent 'turbine' smoothness of a Straight Six, 7000RPM is an easy achievement, and the TT will (if not artificially limited) keep going safely to 7700RPM without demur, the best in Japan (with revised valve gear) pull 9000RPM.
- `- \# X% p4 O7 {
5 J, d) R, v! \- K& p4 @7 Y& KThe Bore is 86mm, which is good for both torque and BHP propagation as it is also the Bore of the Supra and Soarer 3ltr motors.
7 n! J3 Z# G/ N$ `/ c+ y0 b) u, g
3 [( ^+ [; [5 j7 e6 gThey do not share the same Block; the 3ltr is a simple cast unit with different waterways for cooling, different height and different metal alloy. This was necessary for the greater Stroke, which (thanks to those who confirmed this point to me) is 86mm, making it much more inclined to produce torque.
2 E' a2 U$ ^* H
! P6 L8 n# I4 e$ r. \The TT's engine must have been a loss leader, the use of T2000 steel for the bearing shells shows fanatical design care, the machining of the con-rods is almost sculptural, the pistons are 'single form' units, the alloy in the block the most durable alloy available outside Formula 1, it costs an absolute fortune to be this fussy!
  ]4 E) @* ~9 Y6 ~. o, v
. X/ {+ h/ E* H& w5 l! {! N3 pThe above also explains why the 2.5TT is superior to the 3.0TT, that Piston has to travel 20% further for each Stroke. This is a huge limitation on the rate at which the acceleration accelerates within the Engine as a whole, by co-incidence the best compromise Stroke for both internal acceleration and BHP propagation just happens to be around 68/72mm ( o' @; R. Q0 w/ [$ g
7 z& {+ J% L, J; Q5 Z( Q0 D: S5 X
So if you wanted a Turbo'd Straght 6 designed to do what a Turbo'd motor should do, then it will be limited to around 2.5ltrs, 2.0ltrs and the thing would need to rev its guts out, 3.0ltrs and it would be limited in its ability to Rev under load as freely as Turbo'd motors need to release the Turbo's full potential. # J0 C. ?" R+ Q! b1 b3 I" g
% x6 g6 ^. f5 r) [& I* m! }
I have had the opportunity to run side by side with an Auto Supra TT at 60MPH, on a given signal we both pressed the loud pedal to the floor, he was left behind and could not catch me, I had to 'back-off 'at 110MPH by which time he was 2 car lengths behind, even I was surprised at the margin! ! R4 [: x: y, x3 R' D$ I3 K
+ L2 c. U% k+ }+ d" @+ S: S; q5 [
We did the same thing in each other's cars, the same result. But his car definitely seemed to me to be the faster! He did not think my Soarer was very quick when he first drove it, calling it an Old Man's Car, until that moment. * Y9 @  V+ K$ v& |$ b- w
3 P6 E# Z9 O) W
That difference between the 2 cars is also brought about by the B.rake M.ean E.ffective P.ressure, and the working pressure reaches it peak usually somewhere between the peak Torque RPM and the peak BHP RPM, but that's conventional engines, put Turbo's into the equation and it all changes. 1 [# a1 v: E! G5 g: i: ^

% t' S) @5 H$ ~( y- N; iTo produce optimum acceleration of its components the BMEP must reach 145PSI early and peak at around 175PSI. The 2.5TT has at least 145PSI over a 4000RPM band and peaks at 173PSI, the 3.0TT peaks at 154PSI and only gives 145PSI over a 1200RPM range, this is the most important factor in performance motoring.
3 ?7 H: y0 Y) `" U3 c: m3 R; t- D& S4 }. v
The most evident way to feel this is the way our TT's seem to continue to accelerate more aggressively rather than being attenuated by the speed being attained. & q+ h" M' {9 U6 ?, d8 ~: U3 |2 S

2 n' }2 m* i* l0 I2 QTruly acceleration accelerating. 1 _6 ^+ t* a" U% {! _" Z5 c+ U7 u
! C* m$ u6 S8 c: c9 e
The V8 and 3ltr are almost identical to the 3.0TT in the BMEP stakes! Each one being a couple of pounds down on the other, so the 'pecking' order is:
" s, T) O7 ?2 a2 o; F7 a
- s9 H1 U+ G3 H; D- k1 h& ]! U2.5TT
) r! u0 D/ U$ O2 y6 E1 {7 V0 V0 |4 S3.0TT 4 z8 Y% a' v' p! }4 K' }$ J, s3 g3 X
V8
/ t6 c( [" o9 c3ltr " v9 S! R  ]1 i7 \

6 ?6 ~% M% o' J! _And that is exactly how it should be! Horses for courses. 8 b  [% w- S2 U3 d* u! p% l
* a: \6 T: R2 _/ P- J3 D
Just below the Crankshaft is the Oil pan and Sump, this holds the lubricant that keeps all those metal bits from gouging great chunks out of each other, there is a Science entirely devoted to this technology and it is called Tribology.
( z2 c/ q: u# J6 D, m
4 M( e9 \, K4 ~, {* r# oIf these papers continue to be well received and if sufficient people want it I might persuade myself to write a separate paper all about this subject, it would encompass road surface, lubricating oils and Air flow . X; a( N+ y: o; W

3 N6 ^8 c& d4 R* S/ e1 y! W! Q! WBut as a taster, how about this for something seemingly impossible; the metal that your engine is made of absorbs some of the Engine oil in your car into its surface! " B; x' b6 ^; U( Q

; z  m4 T+ i6 FIntrigued? * z, R6 S1 M7 Z# M1 \! i
* [2 j9 h. H2 p* E3 d& X
Advice: When you get your car see if you can find out what oil the owner, or his service agent has used, and stick with it, unless it's poor quality then flush it out in the following manner. I explained this to Jeff Tate on the 'phone as his car suffered from sludge deposits, it is a bit involved but worth telling.
1 |; V4 j6 Z7 Q( j& J+ R5 _
' F& {. G  l2 y0 f1 Warm the car thoroughly, and drain off about 1ltr of the oil already in the car, replace with a good flushing oil.
/ H% G/ o3 H" D, L1 X2 Go for another good run.
& M. H' Z3 l- }& f2 v2 [' X3 Use the car for no more than 300 miles and always decent length runs.
$ D9 k0 j) J( V6 l4 After the last run drain all the oil, refill with entirely flushing oil, take her out for another good run, stopping at intervals taking the oil filler cap off and feeling if the sludge becomes less gelatinous and there is a distinctive smell, slightly 'petrolly' in nature.$ h- J" i/ |# [; i  k% _
5 Go home at this point, don't venture more than 20 miles from home, in other words; take a circuitous route until the desired effect is achieved. 1 C- W; Y2 \2 G! ^1 J1 Y
6 Drain the oil OVERNIGHT in a warm garage.
. g. t+ c+ D) ]" j0 {" L7 Do a complete oil change.
# e5 _; Z% X; i- `8 Do not drive for 30 minutes after filling the car, and before driving check the oil level and top-up to the mark.
! q1 a1 o, T2 p' @3 }0 I5 s3 K% e0 m/ W
Over the next 3 oil changes all the sludge will disappear and then you put Slick 50 in there. NEVER,NEVER,NEVER put Slick 50 in an Engine with sludging, some people have done this in the past, then tried to blame the product for their own utter stupidity when the Engine died. ! I( c1 Y) @2 p; `' E- u3 S# [
; s! f% q! L) R3 f# A% `! v
What is Sludge?
8 F6 Q4 @% k% K; q: O7 T6 w3 d+ d" W5 N4 H
The oils we use are L.ong C.hain P.olymers, and they all deposit themselves on the surface of the metal, it is designed to be wiped off and replaced with other LCP's as the first ones break down. When a different oil is used it may not be able to remove the old LCP but will leave its own new LCP on top and the pollution just continues as one affects the other causing further build up.
, l+ g) K0 B2 ~. ]5 {
2 k8 q; t, j- F$ a" m. zLet's go to the top of the Engine.
& x: [- q4 D2 H8 A6 d1 o* R- K- |% C2 b. ~# K/ G& F3 H% [/ T- c
The Cylinder head contains all those bits that involve breathing, whereas the cylinders are analogous to the lungs, the cylinder head is the throat, I think that is the worst case of a faulted analogy I can think of. Sorry. 0 E2 O( P) n- |* j; y

; L0 `& B0 q( @5 V5 W% N& f: P. {6 w9 MAlmost all Heads (including ours) are X-flow, simply the In.take is on one side, the Ex.haust the other. Our cars are all 4 valve heads, (2 In., 2 Ex.), they are actuated by D.ual O.verH.ead C.amshafts. Obviously the V8's have 4 Camshafts.
* d, o' l! z" a  c! p% n/ q7 X; o6 a
. {) D+ e* S8 B' Y: gThe Cams are turned by the Crank by the Timing Belt, a loop of toothed rubber.
6 F! G: H$ z1 W8 \" W: Z3 ~! w7 o2 b
The valves operate at high temperatures and then dissipate this up its shaft into to the cool oil where the cams reside, the way to do this is to fill them with a Sodium substrate that is excellent at heat transmission. The Ex. valves are always hotter than In. valves but not by as much you might think!
# [6 p. B. b2 O% G2 p8 I$ N
8 C8 J3 m' \3 I0 v$ r6 ~0 m0 TThey are held closed by powerful composite springs and are pushed open by the Cams, there is another type that you may have heard of, Desmodromic which uses a closed loop to control the valves so that there movement is controlled on both the down and up stroke and therefore cannot suffer from the dreaded valve bounce which does happen in the conventional set-up, but due to their nature, the cam profile that opens/ closes the valve is compromised and therefore Desmodromic valves are really only used in narrow band performance engines, and now that we have computer modelling they are rendered nearly extinct.
! J: @$ i7 C- Z3 F# p$ t; r: E+ r% a9 F' I
That Camshaft profile thing, what's that? 4 Z: k2 H0 ]& I/ D1 ?; `! Y

6 j! a6 u: O& y2 OWell, first it's the lobes that are profiled, this profile has to be VERY accurately machined, as that thin shaft must be loaded progressively that is why they are carefully radiused, the contact stress is about 15lb per square mm, look at one of you finger nails, an average mans index fingernail is about 250sq.mm, so that's about 1½ tons pressed on it in a fraction of a second.   H# R+ j% C/ z
/ v( r# C7 r: `1 }
The position of these peaks is the timing, and all fixed (normal) valve timing is a compromise, as things need to be advanced or retarded according to Engine speed to obtain maximum efficiency. As I don't know of anybody with a VVT Soarer in our club I will save you the trial of having to read 2000 words describing all the different systems that are in use, however, if in our ranks there is an owner of a VVT and can send me a diagram of the System then I will explain to all how this method of adjustment is achieved. 9 }% _4 `# Q) M$ V* w) h
9 ?( H9 F9 n! A' M2 N  _# J: B
I hope that it is by a 3 dimensional profile as this is far and away the best and simplest system, also the most efficient in internal losses. I really hope that it is, after giving all the others the thumbs down. ! @; L: d7 _& ?1 ~% ~& U: W6 `

2 u: M/ A+ Q- m( }+ P: {& zThe Right Gear
  U8 t+ B9 h) vIf you are driving a Soarer then I think almost all of you have dispensed with the fatigue of using the three pedal function, you have an Auto' almost all Drivers in this Country start with a Manual, pass their test then eventually go over to an Auto'. I do not know of anybody who has started with an Auto' and the progressed to a Manual, having re-taken their Driving test which I believe is still a legal requirement.
9 x8 G- b1 R3 k' G/ N
7 U6 A4 D. z0 F. [" M. QA GT is meant to have an Auto' box, Grand Touring is about covering great distances or time consuming journeys with the of minimum fatigue possible, and in this respect the Soarer is a peerless companion. Every model is capable of taking its driver and occupants on long journeys without losing his patience or depleting their endurance. Other factors may fatigue you, for me, its ignorant road users, but the Soarers lack of harshness and ready power is always a delight and a soothing influence, the knowledge that these irritations can be left behind at the squeeze of a pedal always gives me that glow of smug superiority. 3 K  H2 R  w/ `8 v8 S! y
' O8 q/ M1 a8 R
The part played by the Auto' box is crucial to this equanimity; it does what I would do, but better, smoother and lets me concentrate my efforts on dealing with the Road, NOT the car!
" {: t) @5 ?8 w3 {& C1 h+ b( N5 l7 ~: j
I will lay my cards on the table and tell you straight away that I would have the 4 speed fitted to our cars in preference to a 5 speed Auto', and a Tiptronic type does not appeal at all. 0 U# W" s% E# a% Q- N& J4 l7 d

; \* G! D8 q. b: O/ d' IYou will see why after you've read this paper. 4 Q8 ?0 p3 t+ v" |

% j) m/ C; V9 {$ H% aNow when the Engine turns the output goes directly to the Hydrodynamic Torque converter, the most important parts are the three elements known as the Impeller, the Stator and the Turbine. The whole thing works as follows; the Output from the Engine goes directly to the Impeller, which circulates the hydraulic medium in its casing this fluid has an energy value. The Turbine is connected to the rear wheels which at this time are stationery and as 1st gear is hydraulically selected the turbine slows to about ½ the Impeller speed and the torque is doubled the natural inclination is for the 2 to equalise there rotation speeds and so as the car revs a little the Turbine plays catch-up and as it nears the parity point, the box ups the gear ratio (2nd) and the Turbine plays catch-up again and again the torque is doubled until parity is reached and so it goes. The Stators job is to re-circulate the hydraulic medium and as it also speeds up to the Impeller it eventually reaches a state of 'free wheeling' and the lock-up clutch is activated which 'ties' the Impeller and Turbine together. Our cars and almost all other Auto's use a Fottinger Centripetal system which is designed to give a Torque conversion anywhere between 1.9 - 2.5 to One, the simple fact is that this system will always take into account the loads imposed without any interference and do it about as well as is possible.
( K! b, d% T. ?, L/ W0 X. U: s  Q* \$ [" c0 N4 z3 I
That O/D ON/OFF what does that do?
+ W: A  O% G; r5 Y4 A6 r# i3 @
5 P# g# ~- c; ~8 M' zThat little switch saves the engine from having to maintain high rev's when we travel at high speed, it is just another gear, but in stead of having all the gears ready for selection (which drains power from the Engine) only the 3 main gears are pre-readied. That means less power is absorbed by the change mechanism which is much smaller than that fitted to a 5 speed Auto', so more power gets to the wheels, this explains why I like the present 'box. The in gear power delivery is stronger as the change up points are further apart and the change system is more efficient. Also the change down from cruising is large enough to make a real difference the shift down from O/D to 3rd is quite a lot bigger than that from 5th to 4th and it is a simple switch out if you want meaning the power jump is instant, quicker than any Auto's hydrochange into 4th and if you switch out at the right moment you get a little bit of Torque multiplication as well, try this out, the effect can be quite amusing! 1 ]$ m6 s9 X5 h4 O' J
* ^: _# e: s  R7 p
That switch with PWR/ECT on it, what does that do?
9 ?' {/ }/ E1 M: t3 g" G
  v: b# k1 @* S) o: l4 XWell if you think about the above you notice that at some point the Torque from the Engine must be such that the resistance at the from the wheels drops below that being taken from the Engine and the Turbine accelerates quickly, this activates the gear change forcing the Engine to pull harder on a higher ratio and so progress through the 'box is achieved. That is great for economy but it means that the car will not go to the red line, or anywhere near it (unless we are on a steep incline), so we have that switch. This is what it does; it holds on to the gears until a certain RPM is attained, it makes the gears direct by locking the Impeller to the Turbine until the next gear is selected, and then it holds that to a predefined limit also, in this mode the Soarer in TT guise is quite astonishing. One can also manually select 1st or 2nd so as to do a final trick, select first, hold the car on the brakes and rev-up to about 2000RPM, release the brakes and put the pedal to the metal, change up at about 6500RPM without taking your foot off the accelerator and do it again changing up to 'D' without the overdrive in at 6500RPM, switch in the overdrive at about 4000RPM it wont come in until 6200RPM by which time you are doing about 120MPH and you would have made your heart thump fiercely in your chest, but keep going, don't take your foot off the loud pedal, take her to 160MPH I've done it and the TT loves it. ! S, o$ o. H) C) H0 T" d$ ^% g' s
& K; W* n9 K4 E* u
This is Race Track stuff, and the Highways are not the place to do that sort of thing. 1 m! f1 N7 c$ w8 b5 l
( U2 G: ]* ~' O" l6 I# G' t
PWR/ECT is quite enough for the main roads of this Country. 1 \" H! w) f7 M% C
5 y8 w+ {4 C. @* N! K
I have long considered the Turbo to be the natural companion for an Auto', the dreaded 'lag' is eliminated by the fact that when progress is required the 'box sets about it, and then the Turbo comes on stream, just as the change down has occurred, with an Auto' 'lag' is an asset, not a fault! . d+ f# x- e" N! P$ w4 b9 I% x+ I

" F+ u+ k6 B  W# h' X. vOK, 5000 words Engine and Auto' covered! . c1 P- V9 V& m% i" B' m
& F" }$ W( O' B( x& @7 N% |
When I set about the task of writing a paper on the basics of Soarer Engine/Gearbox design, the first draft was 12000+ words and seemed a little too detailed. I have pruned the content back as much as seems right but some areas have not received a lot of attention, if there are any areas that really should be revisited and expanded upon with an addendum, then say so, please, if you want more detail or just an impression of a subject not covered, state what you want. 1 K' c) X, Z5 {$ Z; r7 S7 ^
9 y3 r- {* M: u: k: Z3 X
The next paper investigates the Nostrils of our cars, Turbo', Fuel Injection, Exhaust and Cooling.
0 D" v0 u9 M& O  [2 H( P6 Q* c3 n0 Y7 R1 ^% g" b4 B" U
Final thought, if you think hard, then what happens under that bonnet is a little piece of magic, we take it for granted, but it is no less magic for all that.
7 g0 F# X3 J, ]2 g6 X; Y3 ^
& W" e+ I/ a# M2 {7 @8 ~Go safely out there. 2 m) ?) x3 q/ V, @3 g) R

7 _" Q6 p& L+ V3 pRegards
+ g4 x: g& T( I4 }/ _/ T2 O  g6 x/ G& [& y
Iain Wiltshire - Newbury, Berkshire, England. 21 October 2000
/ G* f! q* k' I$ z  {0 w! D0 T7 h- U! |! I

' ]9 T( Y  j) n. J- Y2 P) E, W©The Lexus Soarer Owners Club 9 f+ I/ F; f3 E4 U. D$ Q
说到此,你前面讲的什么都不是。没有了前提,你所谓的关于我的什么开车级数啦,什么鸡肋啦,诚意啦,也自然无从谈起了吧?诚意?凭你是个车贩子,凭你在此论坛对众售车个人的叽叽歪歪的胡乱打压,你也佩说诚意二字?( V8 O" C2 R5 i4 c8 G
.
2 j. O( a  w: v0 }3 X$ i第四,什么叫以改车的价格卖? 说实在的,我压根就没在意你吐沫,更无需回避你的问题而答非所问。什么是改车的价格?什么又是原车的价格? 你所列举的一个列子,能说明什么? 首先,请看清楚,其价格不是你所示的一万,而是里面所隐含的$10,700,这还不包含尚需待安装的水泵费用。你是认为这车比我这车好?因为改装过?如果说这车叫改装过,那我的车好像也改装了点:装了日行大灯,加装了新刹车,用的也是合成机油,这些东西,我不屑一顾,没提。你真好幼稚,与我的车相比,要说这车的优势在于历程上3万多公里,我无话可说(其实也有说头,比如那车是你开的话,发动机一定糟糕的多)。但就其综合价格,它是否应该高,那可就不是你说了算了!名牌空滤,重要吗?5000公里一换,贵很多吗?同样是合成机油,都5000公里一换,又能如何?他有未安装的新水泵,那是因为他的水泵很有可能漏水了,有问题了,我没有新水泵,是因为水泵的正常使用寿命是12万到16万公里,DEALER查验没问题,我为何要换它?我又为何非要特指我没有更换它?按你的说法,我是否应该将起动马达,发电机及相关皮带包括火花塞都要声明换没换呢?你这有诚意的DEALER是这样打广告的,俺以后向你学习好不?再说音响,正如我前面所说的,进来的车有不同的小问题。如果原音响坏了,捉者被拆除了,我是要再装个好音响(这也是你所谓的改装)。我不管他的音像是否是名牌,我只知道我的车是原装的12碟的BOSE,够用够好。至于Blow-Off Valve,适用于极剧烈竞技下要急促的收油和尽油,一般人弄来有用吗?尽整些我们凡人不用的。你怎么不比较一下两车的车身情况呢?没见我的车亮堂多了么?没见我的车多了个天窗么?没见我的车头多了个商标车尾多了闪亮SOARER字样么?(小细节,可见车辆的使用、保养状况,这是一斑而窥全貌,懂不?)我还没提那么多的选项配制,比如车辆循查数显加异常报警:ECT、EFI(行家,知道是什么意思不?)、ABS、WATER TEMP、OIL LEVEL、BRAKE LEVEL等等。懒得给你列举了。
3 @( h* ]7 {8 A  至于水泵事宜我已陈述。提醒你一点,水泵也不是SOARER独有的,这和买其他车一样都必须面临的问题。你老是将店里所有的二手车的水泵都换了,我知道。
) v6 y8 s, |1 E4 z2 R' v8 P   什么SOARER这么少?什么听说MAZDA RX7,你是在说胡话吧?MAZDA 能和LEXUS比吗?懒得理你了,睡觉!奶奶的,都这么晚了!明天将是困乏的一天呐!
# m/ `' C6 r5 O  v    最后声明:你如有NUANZI,要来赌我的TURBO是否堵,我欢迎!咋们可慎重地找个见证人(就老杨吧,虽不熟悉,我还是信任。赢家将一半归您)你如果再这样胡搅蛮缠,老汉不欢迎!在国内丢人不够,你还出口了!
- s; _) Q8 ]" T/ C    附带一下,我的车将有4个走向:一,谈得拢者,价可以千砍,谈不拢者,一毛不降;二,西人已发贴以车换车,考虑中; 三,一个月前已有两老黑想要,不过因家贫,需分期付款,也在考虑中; 四, 实在不行,我自留。( b6 O" v- J* D( v2 A
    车是好车,价是好价。如有疑问,请CANADIAN TIRE验之,有问题,费用我出,无问题,买主自理。& q) `4 d/ v6 n5 N& W
    货物如此,识者居之!
0 ?  n$ y3 [' T- F
0 l5 K  {4 S4 T# E4 u对不起,刚才发现我少说了我的车的一个亮点,那就是我的车有带高位刹车灯的平衡翼,你列举的那车没有(不会是你的托吧?)。* O: v% K1 T; h. u

" i7 Q4 e' E1 n: x0 d3 L, U真的该睡觉了,老这么熬夜可不行!再见了,各位!! I: j4 \. Y2 I5 Q. i" G# N

9 G" M, s( M6 v3 b  g; w' S[ 本帖最后由 晓风残月 于 2008-7-8 02:53 编辑 ]
鲜花(11) 鸡蛋(0)
 楼主| 发表于 2008-7-8 01:28 | 显示全部楼层
关机前,咋也贴2贴:2 Y2 H0 C8 v" i/ k. ~5 x  k" o+ w
http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/c-cars ... E-W0QQAdIdZ59462473
7 V) p' z  }2 k* |: zhttp://edmonton.kijiji.ca/c-cars ... D-W0QQAdIdZ527234409 O# K1 N) D% n5 b
http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/c-cars ... r-W0QQAdIdZ56901059
4 W, E" ^; n" l5 w' z* lhttp://edmonton.kijiji.ca/c-cars ... E-W0QQAdIdZ610870713 z* J7 v  g$ n% R/ T( y
http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/c-cars ... o-W0QQAdIdZ57629003
( r" c2 G6 O8 E3 }  C" }http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/c-cars ... X-W0QQAdIdZ570870011 j% r5 u. R/ R4 L  U4 C
http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/c-cars ... D-W0QQAdIdZ46828793. S, q& }' x' Q. g. F' o
6 K' p: M4 l% I) l2 h4 V* x
够了
鲜花(11) 鸡蛋(0)
 楼主| 发表于 2008-7-8 01:41 | 显示全部楼层
看来,大家还是喜欢玩阴的人啦!我话不中听,但道理还是那个道理!诸位也不看看这其中的究竟,不瞧瞧里面的道行。欺负我的那个香港人也就是来这手。不仅欺我,还赶走了先前于我的2个大陆同胞,包括一东北兄弟。我也知道,这里是讲法度的地方,适合玩阴的,可是我学不会。我还是来直接的,虽然招来警察,大老板明理,大伙明理,结果干了十多年的他走,我留!- x; Y  H/ M* [( A% S
  不欣赏我说话风格的看来是欣赏DEALER的阴了,我也没央求你等买我的车啊,即使是破车!
鲜花(11) 鸡蛋(0)
 楼主| 发表于 2008-7-8 01:45 | 显示全部楼层

回复 13楼 风水青囊师 的帖子

老杨团队,追求完美;客户至上,服务到位!
13楼的什么风水师
" z: w! M) w0 k: Q) J光看字面而不明就里,你还在这里看什么风水!?看你是女人,别求我中伤你。
鲜花(11) 鸡蛋(0)
 楼主| 发表于 2008-7-8 01:49 | 显示全部楼层

回复 14楼 皇ray帝 的帖子

我不管你是什么皇帝,你讲理不? 刨开字面,能看透这技术含量不和对方的用意不? 看不透,你有什么资格说我车破。还以为你真是皇帝么?
# D( ?* `  ~. `' X
. h7 `& b# Z7 |; M8 N: m& ~! z' Q[ 本帖最后由 晓风残月 于 2008-7-8 02:52 编辑 ]
鲜花(11) 鸡蛋(0)
 楼主| 发表于 2008-7-8 01:58 | 显示全部楼层
同言同羽 置业良晨
看来欣赏DEALER者都是本应该土生在加拿大的“洁净”之人呐,好高的素质之人呐!喜欢别人给个和倒彩,喜欢在卖东西的时候让别人无端地说“贵了”后还向不明就里的看客信口忽悠!
鲜花(0) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2008-7-8 02:57 | 显示全部楼层

我来告诉你我有什么资格

同言同羽 置业良晨
我自己开的就是japan model的车。
/ |9 f  D: W+ W% G& f  \2 z5 l怎么样,这种车的价位我是最了解不过了,整天从美国,日本这里order零件,你觉得就你懂行情?
; E4 {! Z( }5 Y* H$ y我平时不会开口说这种话的。但是我既然开口了,肯定不是来给你喝倒彩之类的6 K7 h9 b7 i0 m, i9 i' j4 F) R
$ c8 N$ g$ _/ d+ G) B- t2 Z3 J$ R
你一辆自动档右舵的车,自称还是经过改装的。我靠,老大你别吓我,长那么大我还没见过什么人改自动档的车的。这怎么改,我问你。连钢圈都没换过。你改的是排气还是intake啊?* ~& Z4 G8 W3 {& ?
Turbo的原理都不知道,还把自己一直开低转速当作是保养车发动机。我靠,你有点知识好不好,你没知识也要有常识好不好。Turbo车应该怎么开,你去网上看看再来胡扯吧。 请问你一直都在2千转以下开,你车的turbo还有什么用。
7 N% J8 m& {# i不如我给你个建议,这辆车你留着,过个50年拿出来卖。那时候我靠,别说一万一,就是十一万,搞不好也会有人竞标 lol
鲜花(2) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2008-7-8 08:45 | 显示全部楼层
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  V* w( b! G1 v! Q( W, m# v
LZ is not nice, anyway
鲜花(1) 鸡蛋(3)
发表于 2008-7-8 11:12 | 显示全部楼层
老杨团队,追求完美;客户至上,服务到位!
两位还真能侃阿,倒是有闲工夫洋洋洒洒打那么多字,我看你俩这么能絮叨,干脆握个手,喝个酒,交个朋友算了,都是爱车之人,又没有什么深仇大恨,何必呢??大家伙有机会一起出来坐坐,喝个酒,多好
鲜花(48) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2008-7-8 11:18 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 zidane 于 2008-7-8 12:12 发表
( Y9 W$ E4 s4 x4 A+ f0 `& d( n两位还真能侃阿,倒是有闲工夫洋洋洒洒打那么多字,我看你俩这么能絮叨,干脆握个手,喝个酒,交个朋友算了,都是爱车之人,又没有什么深仇大恨,何必呢??大家伙有机会一起出来坐坐,喝个酒,多好

( p- Z  U5 [* \2 g/ Z ' s' E; V- A" |- z/ J% G3 T
4 M$ ~# n: P6 Z  @+ E
Anyway, it is better to be nicer to your customers.
鲜花(0) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2008-7-8 13:00 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 zidane 于 2008-7-8 12:12 发表 . J% H0 `, U: {2 `- ~  o
两位还真能侃阿,倒是有闲工夫洋洋洒洒打那么多字,我看你俩这么能絮叨,干脆握个手,喝个酒,交个朋友算了,都是爱车之人,又没有什么深仇大恨,何必呢??大家伙有机会一起出来坐坐,喝个酒,多好
" j/ Q. W$ f% l) B3 o
鲜花(11) 鸡蛋(0)
 楼主| 发表于 2008-7-8 18:36 | 显示全部楼层

RE:23 楼----------又来一头

本想刀枪入库,偃旗息鼓,没料到又碰上你这头。你看看,上来的三帖,真可谓一步三嚎,你牛!除了哇哇地“。。。肤浅”“我靠”“我有资格”“TUBRO原理都不知道”。。。外,除了难产而苍白的嚎叫还是嚎叫!此外,我只看见额头上镶嵌"japan model"的次品外,啥资格都没看见,啥真章也没现。+ Z  ~* u/ G5 ?; t9 Q$ C0 g
    你说你嚎个啥?嚎个啥名堂出来了?你连帖子都没看明白,上来就点炮。你无礼在前,我就点了你一下“看不透,你有什么资格说我车破”(看透了,你就有资格。可事实证明,你非但没看透,甚至连字都没认全,你有资格?)你倒还义愤填膺、昂首挺胸,一副咬臀的嘴脸,我好怕!我本以为对那DEALER言辞过分,略感歉疚,可哪能及“靠”声连天之万一。由此可想,你如果处在我的位置,那就不是咬他那么简单了,咱店都在情理之中。“靠”是个很恶的字眼,网络禁用,你不知道吗?那就买张机票回家请教曾经给你喂奶的老母。昨天就觉得你非善类,可我还是退避三舍,希望你自重,谁知道今天倒咬起来了。对你,能说人话吗?# |, q. |3 ]4 \" j& E. v
    整张帖子,我在哪自称己车为改装车了?你是散光呢还是青光?你还大嚎有资格?再说了,自动档的车怎么就不能改装了?新鲜!" ~! B3 t9 }7 U6 q, \& s3 f8 i
    我连TURBO车都不会开,那敢称懂原理啊? 你倒是把真原理倒出来让我见识一下,让我把前述的假原理收回来啊? 量你不知道TURBO车分保养性驾驶和性能性驾驶两种方法。你就是一棒槌!还嚎不?% K9 ?- L! |$ m1 l9 P
    嚎了半天,还谦逊地自称一般不这么嚎的。我又没惹你,而是你先攻击我,而你这就嚎起来了!你说你少嚎,我信。。。才怪!拜托你搜搜,看看我此前是不是个文明人。你要是找出不文明字眼的一个笔画是我的,我尊你为帝。
$ g6 K, Y0 V' h" J    , h0 G# L' v1 Z( t4 Z& w/ d

* N# Y& D& }# W3 j! ?' a    唉,我又何尝不想当个文明的网客呢?可那得分人呐,对你这听不懂人话的嚎叫类,又怎能期望你懂文明?又谈何以文明待你?简言之,遇神我烧香,碰鬼则狼牙棒伺候!
7 t) G: |' l4 l2 K    面子是自己挣的,不是我给的。希望你别再嚎了,自重!谢谢!9 E$ r% a' ~. l1 Z5 K

: `+ ^0 o* M! Q; \( o9 K  Q& t[ 本帖最后由 晓风残月 于 2008-7-8 19:39 编辑 ]
鲜花(0) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2008-7-8 19:06 | 显示全部楼层

对不起啊楼主

老杨团队,追求完美;客户至上,服务到位!
真是不好意思,当初还没发现原来你是条疯狗啊。。。不好意思不好意思,既然是狗,就别学人卖车。; T, S3 r7 y. q2 L8 `8 Y$ q3 W8 \
我不文明?我凭什么要对狗文明啊
8 y) P, D4 X2 X$ z唉。。你这车要是能在这个网上卖出去,我倒立着从我家走到西mall买5袋狗食请你吃,怎么样? 我就敢和你打这个赌。
鲜花(0) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2008-7-8 19:57 | 显示全部楼层
楼主打了很多字,很辛苦,表扬一下。
) j& f3 X! K! F6 o& J8 m说明你是非常想卖这辆车。
8 D- y' j: F& R1 B; K: Q说实话,我很同情你。
% n- ?) c5 K& ~1 H- f* s我个人对BMW非常有感情,但是我对自动挡的车又是非常的鄙视。
. e  ?+ U: ~! Y5 v先撇开其他的不说,就车论车的话,我不知道别人是怎么想的,我个人在路上看到好车是带自动挡,就好像是个最美丽的女人有个最粗矿的生殖器。  G7 ]. J( q9 S# i. z3 V
见楼主这么紧张自己的车,想把车卖出去,估计你也有一定的困难一定的苦衷。但是你见人就叫就是你的错误了,真正的好车,不管你怎么叫,他还是好车。
' U  B2 H: X; g2 ?5 ~+ l8 G3 q我在此就不便多说了。7 S) A: [! M% p, S; @- A( l
最后对我的rude做出道歉。
您需要登录后才可以回帖 登录 | 注册

本版积分规则

联系我们|小黑屋|手机版|Archiver|埃德蒙顿中文网

GMT-7, 2024-11-28 10:59 , Processed in 0.235545 second(s), 32 queries , Gzip On, APC On.

Powered by Discuz! X3.4

Copyright © 2001-2021, Tencent Cloud.

快速回复 返回顶部 返回列表